Jure Sanguinis Paradox

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

Moderator: Daniel

Jure Sanguinis Paradox

Postby hellosquire » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:23 pm

Hi,

I'm active on other forums, but I joined this one too to get my situation out to as many posters as possible who may have a definitive answer.

I went to the NYC Consulate this week.

I am claiming citizenship jure sanguinis through my great grandfather, here's a tree for simplicity's sake.

Great Grandfather: Born in Italy, Jan 28 1880, Naturalized US Jul 14 1921
Grandma: Born in New York, Jul 21 1911, married an Italian citizen Dec 31 1926
Dad: Born in New York, May 09 1954 (he passes the 1948 rule)
Me: Born in New York

I was quite sure I qualified, until the citizenship official pointed out that my grandmother married an Italian citizen. It's true, my grandfather was born in Italy in 1903, but naturalized in 1952, two years before my dad was born. I could not claim through him, but surely I could claim through my grandmother's dad?

The citizenship official said that a wife takes her husband's citizenship. In her theory on the matter, my grandmother may have taken my grandfather's italian citizenship in 1926 when she married him. The citizenship official further said that since he relinquished it in 1952, there's the chance that my grandmother lost it also.

How can this be? I thought the only way you can lose citizenship was to become naturalized in a foreign state. My grandmother was born an American citizen. By the jure sanguinis guidelines, she was always an Italian through her father. How could she gain Italian citizenship through marriage if she already had it through jure sanguinis? And how could she lose it when grandpa naturalized in 1952? She wasn't naturalized "in tow" with him, she was born in America!


I'm very worried now, I spent thousands already on a court order to get certain certificates, a lot of money on translations and apostilles, not to mention travel expenses. The citizenship officer told me she would have to check the laws to see if I qualify now. I'm hopeful, but upset, after spending all this money assuming I fit the jure sanguinis guidelines.

In 1952, there wasn't any automatic citizenship for females when their husbands naturalized as Americans. Isn't it absurd that a native female Italian citizen would lose her Italian citizenship if her Italian citizen husband became a US citizen? Without going through the US naturalization process herself, she'd be stateless! :D
hellosquire
 
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Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:23 pm

Postby Pdelis50 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:20 pm

CATEGORY #8: Your paternal grandmother was born in your native country, your paternal great grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth, your father was born after January 1st, 1948, and neither you nor your father nor your grandmother ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis. You must obtain certified copies of the following documents:

I think this would be your case no ? this websites states you qualify no ?
Pdelis50
 
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Postby EUjoy » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:23 pm

squire, can i ask you how long you had to wait for your NYC appointment?
EUjoy
 
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Postby hellosquire » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:46 am

I had to wait six months for an appointment, I made the appointment in late January.

I do fit into that category, although it seems to be at odds with this law I found, stating that the wives of Italian citizens lose their Italian citizenship if their spouses naturalize as Americans before 1975. I'm hoping this only applies to spouses who were not already American citizens by birth, implying that they naturalized as Americans along with the husband. My grandmother got her Italian citizenship through her father, not by marrying an Italian (which she did anyway). She was already an American by birth and could not naturalize as such.

It's funny, because let's say, if she married a Chinese guy or a Canadian or whatever, she'd be eligible for italian citizenship from her dad, but if she marries an Italian citizen who naturalizes, she is no longer eligible?

That's senseless!
hellosquire
 
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