AUSTRALIAN Having Difficulty! HELP NEEDED!

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

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AUSTRALIAN Having Difficulty! HELP NEEDED!

Postby italy_au » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:50 pm

Hey Guys,

Boy is my story twisted. I have dual American/Australian Citizenship and I am currently trying to get my Italian Citizenship so I can spend 6 months is the USA and then 6 months in the EU next year. But I am having trouble and anyone who could offer me help, I would be so grateful.

Ok, here it goes. I recently discovered the principle of jure sanguis. And I can claim the path through my Great Grandfather who was born in 1892 in Italy and emmigrated to Pittsburgh in 1908. He served in WW1 for the USA and WW2. The problem is we cannot find any naturalization records. The only document that I have that I can use to prove the blood line has not broken (from my Italian born great grandfather to my US born grandfather) is a 1930 US Federal Census of Allegheny County that states that at the time of the census (being 1930) both my great grandfather and great grandmother stated they hadn't naturalized. This proves the bloodline wasn't broken because my grandpa was born in 1920 so he was 10 at the time of the Census. Is this enough proof if I get the 1930 Federal Census certified by an Australian Court. I understand that many people need either a Naturalization record from NARA or USCIS or a No Record document from USCIS, but I am in Australia and every attempt that I have tried to contact these agencies has failed. USCIS phone systems wont let me in from Australia, and they haven't replied to my emails. DHS is in the same boat. NARA has responded but they sent me to the Mid-Atlantic office in Philadelphia, and Mid-Atlantic office offers no help and they wanted me to physically do it my self or to hire a researcher. (This would be nice, but I don't have $3000 spare to fly to the US)

I am doing this through the Italian Consulate-General in Brisbane, Australia. And so far they seem to be no help at all. The keep trying to palm me off to the Philadelphia Consulate. The Philadelphia Consulate is also not replying to my emails. Argggh. I feel that no one is listening to me and that the Brisbane Consulate is doing what it can to prevent me from getting it. They don't understand that I live in Australia and do not have access or cannot easily get this documents unless I fly over to Philadelphia. And they won't accept the documents I already have because they originated in the US and all US documents should be handled through a US-based Italian consulate, not an Australia-based Italian Consulate.

Any help (or hope) any one can give and I would be so grateful.

Regards,
Gary
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Postby Em » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:38 am

Go to the website for the DHS, and search for a G-639 form. This is the form that allows you to check records under the "Freedom of Information Act" and is the form you would use to check for naturalization records. Then, if no record is found, you will have your "no record" letter. It's a bit time consuming, but this is what you need.

Send, with your request, proof of your American citizenship.
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Postby italy_au » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:29 pm

With the FOIA, is there anyway I can pay extra to have it fast-tracked?

What about the consulate in Brisbane, how should I deal with them? Do you think they are making it difficult for me?
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Postby Em » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:58 pm

The government works at its own pace. There is no way to expedite the process. If yours is a simple request, they will fast-track, but the government's definition of "fast" may not agree with your own.

Brisbane seems to be creating problems where none should exist. You are required to apply at the consulate that serves the jurisdiction of your residence. If you have a legal residence in Australia, they should be handling your application. Be sure to show them proof of residence.
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Put some shrimp on the baahbie, Crikie!

Postby drovedo » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:02 pm

Gary,

Have you tried the phone number to Lee Summit, MO yet? If not I will send you.

Have you contacted US Consulate or better yet a US Senate office's immigration dept in US to enquire on your behalf as you can't get a hold of Philadelphia? Note: They cannot give legal advice.

I don't think you should have go to USA to do this.

With USCIS appl. include all and any documentation you can including all US docs you would include with Italian citizenship application.

Do you have addresses for USCIS?

If you are going to have a researcher do it for you in USA, include a signed notarized statement that you are who you are, copy of both australian and US passports, and the other US vital records. This is not worth $3,000 trip. Write letter to researcher too, stating everything you know and include naturalization record.

I'd say a case of Australian beer you can't get here and one of those funny hats.

I say the above, one, to satisfy US gov; and two, to cover researcher legally because of Homeland Security Issues, i.e. internationally.

Note: Serving in US military (getting drafted) does not mean that the person was citizen, although they could petition to get citizenship. There are also voter registration records, assessors office records, state censuses. If doing through researcher, include all known addresses in US.

USCIS should have the record if it is there, if not, ask for "non existence of record on file of Naturalization". USCIS has records from september 27, 1906 of all Federal, County, and municipal courts. Before this NARA, and oh boy, you may have to search a few more places within in reason.

Most Italian immigrants never bothered getting naturalized. (something to consider)

PS: I hear you don't actually have bloomin onions in Australia. Disappointed and lol. :P

If you need addresses and phone no mentioned above let me know.
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Postby drovedo » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:13 pm

Do you already have G-639 form?????????
****************************************
No way to guarantee getting fast tracked. Sorry.

However, correctly following form and instructions via print and phone is good.
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Postby drovedo » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:22 pm

US Military Records.

Most Service Records for Army, Navy, (exception, Air Force) would be destroyed by 1973 fire, however, there might be pension, medical,unit history records and books, newspaper, etc. Monuments with names of those who served in US town of residence at time. Not all of these sources would be microfilmed and/or indexed. However, good source. Do you have his decorations? Was he reservist? West Point? Anapolis? Any time a merchant marine in between wars?

Also, since he came from Italy, he would have to register for draft upon reaching 20. They would have draft record, "lista di leva".

Its too bad you have to go back to US records. However, look it like an adventure!!!!
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Re: Put some shrimp on the baahbie, Crikie!

Postby italy_au » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:20 am

drovedo wrote:Gary,

Have you tried the phone number to Lee Summit, MO yet? If not I will send you.

Have you contacted US Consulate or better yet a US Senate office's immigration dept in US to enquire on your behalf as you can't get a hold of Philadelphia? Note: They cannot give legal advice.

I don't think you should have go to USA to do this.

With USCIS appl. include all and any documentation you can including all US docs you would include with Italian citizenship application.

Do you have addresses for USCIS?

If you are going to have a researcher do it for you in USA, include a signed notarized statement that you are who you are, copy of both australian and US passports, and the other US vital records. This is not worth $3,000 trip. Write letter to researcher too, stating everything you know and include naturalization record.

I'd say a case of Australian beer you can't get here and one of those funny hats.

I say the above, one, to satisfy US gov; and two, to cover researcher legally because of Homeland Security Issues, i.e. internationally.

Note: Serving in US military (getting drafted) does not mean that the person was citizen, although they could petition to get citizenship. There are also voter registration records, assessors office records, state censuses. If doing through researcher, include all known addresses in US.

USCIS should have the record if it is there, if not, ask for "non existence of record on file of Naturalization". USCIS has records from september 27, 1906 of all Federal, County, and municipal courts. Before this NARA, and oh boy, you may have to search a few more places within in reason.

Most Italian immigrants never bothered getting naturalized. (something to consider)

PS: I hear you don't actually have bloomin onions in Australia. Disappointed and lol. :P

If you need addresses and phone no mentioned above let me know.


What is Lee Summit, MO?

I have consultated the US consulate in Sydney and they said that they only deal with US citizenship services and not records.

What is the US Senate Office Immigration Dept? I don't live in the USA so i dont have a state to have a senator in?

The reason why I needed to call USCIS was that I have no idea how to fill out the FOIA forms. I've read the instructions but it still doesnt make sense. I guess the US government terminology is different from the AU government.
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Postby Em » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:53 am

Gary,

I think this is the form you use to obtain naturalization records or statement of "no record":

http://www.ice.gov/doclib/g-639.pdf


Just one question--how did you obtain Australian citizenship? If by naturalization before 1992, you do not qualify. If after 1992, all is well.
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Postby penguindump » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:05 am

I got my No Record statement from them back in August.. Sent it off to DC for certification as soon as I received it. Still nothing :(
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Postby gladdo » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:34 am

Come on Gary stop wasting everyones time. If you just need 6 months in the US and 6 months in Italy dont go down this track...

The US gives you 3 months as a tourist, Italy the same... if you need 6 months just drive or fly over a border and return after a few days.

Or is it that you need to work to finance your way through and want to the option to not return to Australia (more likely I imagine).
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Postby Em » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:10 pm

Actually, Gary states that he is a U.S. citizen so he can stay in the U.S. for as long as he likes.

I would not suggest that he stay in Italy for three months, leave for a few days, and then return. This not legal and may cause future difficulties. Keep in mind that Italian officials do check the passports of non EU members when they enter the country, so it is easy to determine if someone is trying to circumvent the law.
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