Qualification

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

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Qualification

Postby mpisarri » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:18 pm

I was wondering if i do in fact qualify and am looking for little more clarification on the progress. I have never been to Italy, but want an Italian passport to work in Germany. I do not have plans to ever live in Italy or learning Italian. (Please don't tell me I am doing this for the wrong reason)

My great great grandfather and his wife came from Italy in 1886. I believe that according to the 1910 census he was not yet naturalized, but I couldn't read it very well.

My great grandfather was born 1888 a US citizen.

the path continues down, through my grandfather and father to me, my last name is unchanged.

Is this too far back to claim Jus sanguinis? I realize I am going back 131 years.

On the consulate website it's written:

Declaration of desire to become a citizen;

If the foreigner is of Italian descent (up to the 2nd degree) he/she can obtain citizenship in any of the following cases:

- by serving in the Italian armed forces;

- by becoming a subordinate employee of the Italian State, even abroad;

- by residing legally in Italy for at least two years after reaching legal age.


Does this mean in addition to proving my blood line goes back to Italy, I will have to meet an additional requirement? or is this something unrelated and I am completely misunderstanding the policy.

Thank you and ANY input is appreciated.
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Re: Qualification

Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:49 pm

mpisarri wrote:I was wondering if i do in fact qualify and am looking for little more clarification on the progress. I have never been to Italy, but want an Italian passport to work in Germany. I do not have plans to ever live in Italy or learning Italian. (Please don't tell me I am doing this for the wrong reason)

My great great grandfather and his wife came from Italy in 1886. I believe that according to the 1910 census he was not yet naturalized, but I couldn't read it very well.

My great grandfather was born 1888 a US citizen.

the path continues down, through my grandfather and father to me, my last name is unchanged.

Is this too far back to claim Jus sanguinis? I realize I am going back 131 years.

On the consulate website it's written:

Declaration of desire to become a citizen;

If the foreigner is of Italian descent (up to the 2nd degree) he/she can obtain citizenship in any of the following cases:

- by serving in the Italian armed forces;

- by becoming a subordinate employee of the Italian State, even abroad;

- by residing legally in Italy for at least two years after reaching legal age.


Does this mean in addition to proving my blood line goes back to Italy, I will have to meet an additional requirement? or is this something unrelated and I am completely misunderstanding the policy.

Thank you and ANY input is appreciated.


It seems as though you are in the clear and, no, there are no special requirements such as you noted above. Those have to do with someone of Italian descent but *not* direct-line of unbroken citizenship potential. In other words, had your ggf naturalized before your gf was born - that sort of thing.

This document (http://www.conschicago.esteri.it/NR/rdonlyres/D50322A7-7E4C-42F9-9E54-45C577FFBAEA/0/ACQUISTOCITTJURESANGUINIS.doc) at the Chicago consulate's website does a pretty good job of explaining the requirements. Keep in mind that each consulate enforces the rules in slightly differing ways, however.
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Postby penguindump » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:58 pm

If you are under the jurisdiction of San Francisco, here is a possible show stopper:

PLEASE NOTE: ANCESTORS NATURALIZED BEFORE JUNE 14, 1912 CANNOT TRANSMIT CITIZENSHIP (EVEN TO CHILDREN BORN BEFORE THEIR NATURALIZATION

I hope this sort of thing doesn't apply to you.. and I believe (but am in no way certain) that this only applies to SF.
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Postby mpisarri » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:56 pm

penguindump wrote:If you are under the jurisdiction of San Francisco, here is a possible show stopper:

PLEASE NOTE: ANCESTORS NATURALIZED BEFORE JUNE 14, 1912 CANNOT TRANSMIT CITIZENSHIP (EVEN TO CHILDREN BORN BEFORE THEIR NATURALIZATION

I hope this sort of thing doesn't apply to you.. and I believe (but am in no way certain) that this only applies to SF.



Hmm, thank you for the heads up. I am currently going to school in Boston, but this spring I am moving to New York for a 6 month coop, so I was going to wait and do the process through that consulate. Currently, I am just collecting all the certificates; although that in itself is a challenge. I was hoping to have this all sorted before I start school this coming September in Germany, but that doesn't look promising.

Has anyone known citizenship to be rejected even when the proper linage is proven?? I feel like I am not really Italian enough, and they will see right through this. Will my families good financial standing help my cause at all? I assume they will not grant citizenship if they think I only want it for the social welfare benefits (which I don't at). And will I have to state my reasons for wanting Italian citizenship? Will the fact that I am only 19 influence their decision in any direction?

It's also very unlikely that my father, still alive, would obtain Italian citizenship, I've read that he may be required to do this.
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Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:31 pm

mpisarri wrote:
penguindump wrote:If you are under the jurisdiction of San Francisco, here is a possible show stopper:

PLEASE NOTE: ANCESTORS NATURALIZED BEFORE JUNE 14, 1912 CANNOT TRANSMIT CITIZENSHIP (EVEN TO CHILDREN BORN BEFORE THEIR NATURALIZATION

I hope this sort of thing doesn't apply to you.. and I believe (but am in no way certain) that this only applies to SF.



Hmm, thank you for the heads up. I am currently going to school in Boston, but this spring I am moving to New York for a 6 month coop, so I was going to wait and do the process through that consulate. Currently, I am just collecting all the certificates; although that in itself is a challenge. I was hoping to have this all sorted before I start school this coming September in Germany, but that doesn't look promising.

Has anyone known citizenship to be rejected even when the proper linage is proven?? I feel like I am not really Italian enough, and they will see right through this. Will my families good financial standing help my cause at all? I assume they will not grant citizenship if they think I only want it for the social welfare benefits (which I don't at). And will I have to state my reasons for wanting Italian citizenship? Will the fact that I am only 19 influence their decision in any direction?

It's also very unlikely that my father, still alive, would obtain Italian citizenship, I've read that he may be required to do this.


1) It can easily take a year or more to round up all of the required documents. You will be amazed at how the time flies by.

2) I called the NYC consulate last April to schedule an appointment to present my application and was given a date of January 3, 2008. The current wait for an appointment may be longer or it may be shorter - though probably not by much. If you really hope to get in during your "6 month coop", you had better try to schedule an appointment now.

3) There is no such thing as being "not Italian enough". If you prove your lineage, you *are* Italian by law. It is as simple as that. No language tests, no knowledge of Italy's political system, in fact, you don't even need to prove you know how to find Italy on a map of the world.

4) You don't "want Italian citizenship". You are simply showing that you *are* an Italian citizen by blood right. Don't be so hard on yourself. :)
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Postby penguindump » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:53 pm

Do you mean that your father wouldn't obtain citizenship because he simply wouldn't be interested? Or is there a disqualifying factor?

No consulate does credit checks or anything to my knowledge, so financial standing has no bearing on whether or not you become recognized as a citizen.

It's all based on lineage and staying within the rules so to speak of the consulate in which you're applying at. Rules being, for example, the grandfather didn't naturalize before the father's birth.. something like that.
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Postby mpisarri » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:24 pm

2) I called the NYC consulate last April to schedule an appointment to present my application and was given a date of January 3, 2008. The current wait for an appointment may be longer or it may be shorter - though probably not by much. If you really hope to get in during your "6 month coop", you had better try to schedule an appointment now.

3) There is no such thing as being "not Italian enough". If you prove your lineage, you *are* Italian by law. It is as simple as that. No language tests, no knowledge of Italy's political system, in fact, you don't even need to prove you know how to find Italy on a map of the world.

4) You don't "want Italian citizenship". You are simply showing that you *are* an Italian citizen by blood right. Don't be so hard on yourself. :)


Thanks for those pieces of information, I was not aware of the long wait time at the NYC consulate, I may just stick with the Boston (and drive back), I've heard they don't have appointments.

Thank you for putting the citizenship law into a different perspective, I was not thinking with the mindset that Italian Citizenship is a birthright of mine.
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Postby Pdelis50 » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:29 pm

I would be curious with your approach, this is one the first posts I have seen concerning qualifying via great great grandfather. my case is similiar, but the issues I have concern name spellings and obtaining documents. when I went to the consulate in 2005, i was told that I qualify, it is just I have a bunch of official documents with name misspellings that has me stalled for the moment
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Postby Em » Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:35 am

Qualifying through a greatgreatgrandfather is more common today than you might think. However, tracing the lineage and obtaining all the documents becomes more complex with each additional generation. Also, as you note, there is an increased incidence of discrepancies in terms of names and dates.

Generally, surname discrepancies present more problems than discrepancies in the given name. Consulates are generally forgiving of Americanized versions of Italian given names. You should expect the processing of documents to be lengthly. Those claiming citizenship through an Italian-born parent report short processing times, so it seems that the simple applications are handled expeditiously. Most others report two-three years waiting periods.
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Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:34 pm

Em wrote:Qualifying through a greatgreatgrandfather is more common today than you might think. However, tracing the lineage and obtaining all the documents becomes more complex with each additional generation. Also, as you note, there is an increased incidence of discrepancies in terms of names and dates.


As we speak of great-great-grandparents, it is also useful to be aware that Italy did not exist as the country we know today prior to 1861. Thus, someone who emigrated from Calabria in 1860 may have been Calabrese, but he/she was never *Italian*.

There are special rules for persons born prior to 1861 but legaly residing in Italy at the time the Republic was formed. Also be aware that not all of the original nation-states joined the republc in 1861. The area which includes Rome, for example, appears to have joined the republic in 1870.
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