Do I qualify and what online service to use?

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

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Do I qualify and what online service to use?

Postby sohojohnny » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:44 am

My grandparents on both mother and fathers side were born in Italy.
Gave birth to my parents in America as aliens not naturalized. Can you point me in the right path if I qualify....
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Re: Do I qualify and what online service to use?

Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:40 am

sohojohnny wrote:My grandparents on both mother and fathers side were born in Italy.
Gave birth to my parents in America as aliens not naturalized. Can you point me in the right path if I qualify....


Based on what little info you give above, yes, you probably do qualify.

Regardless of where you live, the Chicago Italian Consulate has a nice document at therir website which covers the requirements pretty well. Visit http://www.conschicago.esteri.it/Consolato_Chicago/Menu/I_Servizi/Per_i_cittadini/Cittadinanza/ and click the "Recognition of Italian citizenship by "jure sanguinis"" link.

Where do you live, by the way? Your place of residence determines which consulate you will need to deal with and thus some the the more arcane rules enforced unevenly by the various offices.
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qualify

Postby sohojohnny » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:07 am

I live in Miami florida
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Re: qualify

Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:15 pm

sohojohnny wrote:I live in Miami florida


Oh well. Living in Miami has some good points, but I don't know if the local Italian consulate is one of them. As an aside, I lived in Fort Lauderdale for 21 years.

At any rate, how much info do you have on your grandparents? Do you know exactly where they were born? Do you have relatives in those areas that could lend a hand?

Are any of your grandparents still living? Your parents?

Although you only need to prove a single unbroken chain of citizenship (you-father-paternal grandmother, you-mother-maternal grandfather, etc), you may want to begin by following all possible paths simultaneously. You'll learn a lot about your family in the process and also be coverd in case one line proves to have problems.

As an example, I share the same situation as you (all four grandparents born in Italy, etc); when I follow the me-father-paternal grandfather line, everything matches up beautifully. Names are spelled identically on all docs, birth dates all agree, etc. On my mother's side however, everything has proved to be a huge mess with varying spelling of surnames, birth dates disagreeing by 2 years, etc.

Some of the things you will need:

Determine your grandparent's places of birth, then write to the city/village and request birth certificates, marriage certificates (if applicable), and - necessary for Miami - a certificate of citizenship or "certificato cittadinanza". You can find a handy form-letter generator at
http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resources/letters/index.asp.

Grandparent's death certificates. If you know the city/town in which they died, contact Town/Village Clerk's office for smaller locales or the "Vital Records Registrar" for larger cities. I hope and pray for you that none of them died in New York state because NY makes it exceedingly difficult to obtain these docs (although if your parents are living I believe they can get *their* parents death certificates fairly easily). PS: You can get the same docs from the state's vital records division but it is usually much faster and cheaper to get them at the local level.

Naturalization. Once again, I hope and pray that your grandparents (well, the one from whichever line you choose to go with) *did* naturalize, because it is far easier and faster to prove this then to prove that they did not. To prove no naturalization occurred, plan on allowing at least two years, and even then many of the consulates will make additional demands. On the other hand, obtaining documents for a naturalization which did take place can often be achieved in a matter of a few weeks.

You will also need your parent's birth and marriage certificates as well as your own. Read the document I linked to earlier carefully, especially the part about the type of certificates required ("long form"), the raised seal, and apostilles.

If either of your parents were in a previous marriage which ended in divorce or death of a spouse, you will need to document this as well (the point being, I presume, to prove that you are not the illegitimate child of an illegal/improper marriage).

Gather up the above and you will be well on your way. Hope this helps!
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qualify

Postby sohojohnny » Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:14 pm

Thank you for the quick reply, i live close by in hollywood...Work in fort lauderdale.
Just started on the family tree hunt, every past on, parents grandparents.

My fathers side has been some what easy to research online using anc.com
Have his birth date,place,wifes maiden name,marriage year, i believe location of marriage in Italy,his and her place of death which were in New Jersey.
Most all computer data however. Have not attempted to obtain hard copies of cert..yet
so hard part just began I heard of these italian org that for a fee do leg work for you any advise.Thank you for your time
Johnny
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qualify

Postby sohojohnny » Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:22 pm

Same here my mothers familys named misspelled everywhere, and dates!

My fathers family is clear,not sure do I need all her families docs or just one set of gparents?
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Re: qualify

Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:56 pm

sohojohnny wrote:Same here my mothers familys named misspelled everywhere, and dates!

My fathers family is clear,not sure do I need all her families docs or just one set of gparents?


This is where the differences in the consulates come into play.

Using myself as an example (me-father-paternal grandfather), some consulates seem only to be interested in:
    My birth and marriage certificates
    My father's birth certificate and marriage certificate
    My grandfather's birth and marriage certificates plus poof of date naturalized or proof of non-naturalization.
Other consulates add a few items:
    My birth and marriage certificates
    My father's birth certificate and marriage certificate
    * My mother's birth certificate
    My paternal grandfather's birth and marriage certificates plus poof of date naturalized or proof of non-naturalization.
    * My paternal grandmother's birth certificate

Actually, I think the second list is officially the requirement of all consulates, however it has been reported that many forego documents for persons not directly in the line of ascent. To be safe, you should definitely use the second list - again, as described in the document from the Chicago consulate's website.

If you use one of the professional services to gather all of these documents the total cost will be very high indeed. You should be able to obtain most of the required docs yourself without a lot of trouble. You can begin at http://www.state.nj.us/health/vital/nongenealogical.shtml for your grandparent's death certificates and your parent's birth/marriage certificates if they were born/married in New Jersey.

Since you are fairly certain about the place of birth and marriage for your grandparents, use the form letter generator to request the docs mentioned in my earlier post (don't forget the certificate of citizenship which Miami apparently now requires). Unfortunately some of these villages can take many months to respond to requests; but if you read these boards you will see that the "professional services" often don't do much better.

Here's a tip: use an online Italian telephone directory (http://www.paginegialle.it/pg/cgi/pgsearch.cgi?ts=2&l=2&cb=0) to search for your surname in the village from which your grandparents emigrated. If you find any (especially if it's a small village) there is a good chance that these people will be related to you. Get some help writing a letter of introduction in italian and mail it off to several of the addresses. If you can establish a friendly contact with even one person, go ahead and ask that person if he/she would be so kind as to obtain the documents you need and mail them to you.
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Postby frankie » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:03 pm

Both my grandparents (on both sides) were born in Italy and eventually came to America, but did not become American citizens. My father came to America in 1913 (before his parents) and became a naturalized citizen before I was born. How do I fine out if I qualify for Italian citizenship?
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Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:14 pm

frankie wrote:Both my grandparents (on both sides) were born in Italy and eventually came to America, but did not become American citizens. My father came to America in 1913 (before his parents) and became a naturalized citizen before I was born. How do I fine out if I qualify for Italian citizenship?


This is not good. Your father could not pass Italian citizenship to you because he himself was not an Italian citizen at the time of your birth.

Were you born after 1948? (or is it after 1947?). If so, what are the particulars for your mother? Was she born in the US or in Italy? If in the US, was *her* father an Italian citizen at the time of her biirth? If your mother was born an Italian citizen, was she *still* Italian at the time of your birth?
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qualifying

Postby italia123 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:57 pm

Hi my question is as follows. My great great grandfather was born in Italy but never came to Canada. My grandfather was born in Italy and came to Canada with my grandmother, my father and my 4 uncles around 1950. My father who was around 15 years old when he got to Canada did not get his Canadian citizenship until 1965. I was born in 1959 in Canada. Do I qualify for Italian citizen because at the time of birth my father was still a Italian citizen ? Does my son who was born in 1986 in Canada qualify for citizen because of the above ? Maybe someone can help me out here . Thank you.
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Postby Em » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:03 pm

Both you and your son qualify.
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whats my next step

Postby italia123 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:52 pm

Thank you Em for the quick response. Shall I contact my area Italian Consulate to start the paper work. Or is better to get it started a differant way. Do I have to become a Italian citizen before my son ?
Thanks again.
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On line questionnaire

Postby Muddoni » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:02 pm

I have been told by consular officials that the best, and official, on-line resource for gathering whether one is eligible, and which docs he should get is at:

www.niaf.org/citizenship

Although currently hosted on a Niaf server (one may like niaf or not I guess) this has been developed with the consular network and the embassy of italy in the us. it is very accurate in telling you exactly what you need and whether you qualify or not.

try it!
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Postby Em » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:59 am

Take Muddoni's suggestion. I haven't seen it, but it sounds good.

You can apply before your son, he can apply before you, or you can both apply together.

Question for Muddoni. My son applied in NYC last year and has yet to hear from them. Since I have all the paperwork, I was thinking of submitting my own application in Newark. Do you know anything about the Newark consulate? My primary goal is to expedite the process for my son, and I'm wondering if things would move more quickly there. (His application is through my line.)

Many thanks.
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Newark

Postby Muddoni » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:38 pm

My experience, and that of other friends and relatives who use this account and sometimes visit this board, was v. good.
It has a very small staff though. It's a VICE consulate, no wonder..

I would not know about 'expediting', I tried too at some point and they seemed to be very stiff in processing everything in chronological order. They kept repeating this mantra : it's a very long line, you are at the end of it..
In a way I must say it was reassuring to be told that there are no shortcuts though.

Maybe I should create a different thread about the official online questionnaire - seems like a very important, reliable and FREE resource, yet everyone is not aware of it.
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