I live abroad.. can I still apply in NYC?

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

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I live abroad.. can I still apply in NYC?

Postby rachm6788 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:04 pm

I have a strange question... I am a resident of NY State (I can vote there, my Driver's License is there), however I have been residing with a temporary residence visa in Spain for the past year and a half. I pay taxes there, not in the US. I have a strange paranoia that when I go to my appointment they will tell me that I must apply in Spain. Does anyone know if there is any rule that I must be currently residing in NY state in order to apply at their consulate? I am pretty sure I can't do it through Spain since I am not a permanent resident, anyway.
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Postby Em » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:31 pm

If you are legally residing in Spain, you can apply there; but if you will be in NY and can show proof of residency (a driver's license will do), you certainly can apply there. Keep in mind, though, that there is a long wait for appointments in NY, and you must apply in person.
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Postby jcallori » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:04 pm

You might want to consider applying at an Italian consulate outside the United States if you are residing legally in your host country. I'm sure eligibility requirements vary from country to country; in my case, you needed a residence permit in order to apply at the consulate in London.

Considering you need to wait nine months for an appointment in New York, and then wait another two to three years for recognition if they accept your documents as is (which is a big 'if' in light of recent reports), applying in Spain is likely a better option.

In London it took seven months from the day of my appointment to having a passport in my hand. Plus you can normally get someone on the phone in the Citizenship Office and they are willing to give status updates, something New York does not do, frustratingly, as a matter of policy.

Hope this helps.


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Postby peggymckee » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:06 pm

jcallori wrote: in my case, you needed a residence permit in order to apply at the consulate in London.
May I ask how you got a residence permit for UK?

Also, did you have to get your ancestor's federal (USA) documents (naturalization or no record) federally apostilled?

All the best, Peg
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Postby jcallori » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:50 am

Hi Peggy,

I was living and working in the UK on a work permit, which entitles you to a visa. This visa is considered a residence permit for the purposes of applying for citizenship at the London consulate - they were very clear that a regular student visa wouldn't count.

I received my ancestor's naturalization papers from the NARA office in New York City - had them apostilled by New York State.
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Postby peggymckee » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:44 am

Dear JCallori--
Many thanks for your informative response. I don't know if I can swing a work or other residency permit, but I always like to be well informed about possible options. All the best, Peg
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Re: I live abroad.. can I still apply in NYC?

Postby hellosquire » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:26 pm

rachm6788 wrote:I have a strange question... I am a resident of NY State (I can vote there, my Driver's License is there), however I have been residing with a temporary residence visa in Spain for the past year and a half. I pay taxes there, not in the US. I have a strange paranoia that when I go to my appointment they will tell me that I must apply in Spain. Does anyone know if there is any rule that I must be currently residing in NY state in order to apply at their consulate? I am pretty sure I can't do it through Spain since I am not a permanent resident, anyway.


If you're definitely applying in New York, don't even mention the fact that you live or have lived in Spain. They don't need to know that :)

It's not a case of being deceitful, but why give the NY Consulate a reason to say they need to forward your application to Spain to check if you've renounced your Italian citizenship there? I like to be optimistic, but I wouldn't put it past them. Logic and consistency never play a part in this process, and apart from the core set of guidelines for jure sanguinis, each consulate implements their own little nuanced rules, which quite frankly they pull out of their _____ to be blunt.

It might be a good idea to apply in Spain - search the forums extensively for anyone who has tried it. Some countries are quicker or more lenient than others.

Best of luck! The best thing to do is make sure you have everything, even from the non-Italian line of descent. If you're not pressed for money, translate as much as you can. Try to make as many corrections as you can if there are discrepancies. Although follow up appointments are generally granted faster than new ones, why wait another eight months or so to get an appointment for anything that can be done before your first one?
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Postby hellosquire » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:05 pm

Yes, moot if he/she's applying in Spain. But this person gives the impression that they have an appointment coming up in New York, according to their post. Why on earth would this person mention to the NY Consulate that they live in Spain if they have a permanent address in New York?

There are many applicants on this and other forums who have had their applications sent to other consular jurisdictions for verification of birth certificates originating from that jurisdiction, and for proof that they have not renounced their Italian citizenship in those jurisdictions.

I think many would agree with me that the jure sanguinis process has no universal rules of procedure for processing applications, only rules for qualification. Even qualification rules are vague from consulate to consulate, eg. "the naturalization prior to 1912 rule" in San Francisco.

Frankly, any US citizen with a valid US passport and permanent residency in an Italian consular jurisdiction in the US would be an idiot to mention concurrently living elsewhere outside of the US. Obviously, if they're applying in Spain, as an American you'd have to mention having previously lived somewhere in the US. I understand that. But if this person is applying in New York, why would they even mention living in Spain?

After waiting eight months for an appointment, I wouldn't dare say "Oh, by the way, I haven't been here for six months yet, I live in Spain." Why give them any reason to generate bureaucratic backlog? As someone who deals with bureaucrats on a regular basis, I have to say that only a moron would provide the consulate with unnecessary information unrelated to their right to claim citizenship.
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Postby hellosquire » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:32 am

You certainly have a point there. If I were her, though, I wouldn't mention it unless they asked. I would let them elicit all information from me instead of providing what I think they may need.

I'm only saying this because the official only took notice of the cover photo page of my passport, and I gave them a photocopy of it. I haven't lived anywhere besides NY, though. They didn't thumb through the pages.

By no means would I want the applicant to lie to the consulate, but I wouldn't want her to ruin any of her chances for a speedy application by providing information they don't specifically ask for.

You are certainly right about the chances of them seeing a visa though. :)
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