qualifying and adoption

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

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qualifying and adoption

Postby rtdavide » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:14 pm

since i asked this very question a few years ago, and the answer wasn't available, i'm going to post for anyone else that might have the same question.

my maternal GF immigrated to the US in the 20's, married an italian/american girl and had my mom. mom got married to an american in the 50's and i was born. But... and here is the hitch.... I was given up for adoption by my italian mother and adopted by an american family with no italian heritage at all.

I met my birth family when i was about 30 and have decided to get italian citizenship jure sanguinis. This IS available to me because my actual blood is half italian, BUT ..... the case is not simple.

i had to get sealed copies of my original birth certificate from California, sealed copies of my original adoption certificate from the county where I was adopted.

I took these to the consulate hoping that i would be able to convincingly demonstrate my link to italy, BUT........ no go.

The consulate either could not or would not take responsibility for making the decision on a non-standard case.
i was recommended to a lawyer.
first off, I had to get my mom recognized as an italian citizen.
So i made my appointment at the Consulate, presented the docs in march, and mom just let me know the other day that she received her form from AIRE to register as an Italian citizen.
after that was done, it would be up to her to file for an acknowledgement of parenthood in Italy. I am just starting this process now.
so basically, it will mean paying for lawyers in Italy to get the parentage acknowledged by Italy, and only then will I be able to proceed. one good thing is that as I understand it, once this is done, I will not have to file at the consulate for citizenship, that will be granted as part of the process.

i was quoted around €3-5000 and one year depending on the preponderance of evidence. I can't imagine their will be much of problem since I have all the documents available, and the link is fairly demonstrable, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were other hitches.

I had hoped that the consulate could simply look at the documents and make the judgement, but that was not done.

On the plus side, there don't seem to be any legal blocks with the adoption as far as me having lost all rights to any italian heritage through the adoption. In fact, EU law seems to give adopted children full rights to thier birth heritage. It's just that the legal procedure is much more costly than simply presenting documents at the consulate.

For anyone else faced with the same situation, it is possible that individuals in other consulates may bypass the legalities mentioned here, but having spoken to 2 lawyers and 2 separate consulate officers and them supposedly having checked with thier superiors in Rome.... I'd prepare myself for this process.
rtdavide
 
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adoption

Postby NOLA » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:51 am

Hi,

My situation is a little different, but I could have applied using your method. My natural mother was an Italian citizen at the time of my birth. However, my Italian-American parents, actually my father, never renounced his right to Italian citizenship through my grandfather. I have one document left to obtain. I was able to get a new certified copy of my sealed Order of Adoption by some miracle. Now I have to petition another court to get a certified copy of my original birth certificate. If I did this process through my natural mother, I'd have to change my name to her's and I certainly don't want to do this. Italians give children adopted as minors the automatic right to citizenship, and this was confirmed by the New York console. Good luck with your task.
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Re: adoption

Postby Tiffany » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:41 am

NOLA wrote:Italians give children adopted as minors the automatic right to citizenship, and this was confirmed by the New York console


The law states the children adopted as minors by Italian citizens are eligible for automatic citizenship. This does not cover those adopted from Italian birth parents by other non-Italian parents as far as I can tell. Did NY tell you differently?
Tiffany
 
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Re: adoption

Postby rtdavide » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:23 pm

NOLA wrote:Hi,

My situation is a little different, but I could have applied using your method. My natural mother was an Italian citizen at the time of my birth. However, my Italian-American parents, actually my father, never renounced his right to Italian citizenship through my grandfather. I have one document left to obtain. I was able to get a new certified copy of my sealed Order of Adoption by some miracle. Now I have to petition another court to get a certified copy of my original birth certificate. If I did this process through my natural mother, I'd have to change my name to her's and I certainly don't want to do this. Italians give children adopted as minors the automatic right to citizenship, and this was confirmed by the New York console. Good luck with your task.


The name change was suggested by both consular officers I spoke to and struck me as one of the more assinine things I have heard.
They said I could just change my name to match my mothers name, but how on earth would that show my parentage??

my amended birth cert would still show my adoptive parents and the sealed original is just that... sealed. Even if you get a copy of it, which I had to petition the court for, it can't be altered. I checked with CA just to make sure and there is no possibility of amending it.

Likewise I would have to ..what?... get my marriage certificate changed? all other docs changed to mirror this?
All told that would be, I think, pretty disrespectful to the parents that raised me from a few months after birth.

IF you happen to have been adopted BY italian parents, there is no reason why the consulate would ever know that you were adopted. You would simply present the amended birth cert to them and there ya go. If that describes your situation, than I wouldn't even bother showing them anything about the adoption. They don't need to know and it won't stop you.
The hitch is in demonstrating your link when you have been adopted OUT of the family. Italy, and the EU, seems to recognize the original heritage of children, and as I've been told by the lawyers, they WILL grant me the request, but it is not standard and will have to be covered in this separate and costly procedure.
rtdavide
 
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Location: Los Angeles

a little paragraph

Postby NOLA » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:16 am

Hi,

On the NY Birth Certificate of Adopted Children, even though it doesn't say, "adpoted," there is a little paragraph that refers to administrative code which indicates that you are adopted. When they translated this paragraph, they looked it up in the NYCP code and found it. Thus,the need for the Order of Adoption and original birth certificate.

The reason why you would have to change your name to your birth mother's, is that if you are trying for jure sanguinis, the name registered in Italy would have to run from her. My situation is so bizarre that actually the person named on my original birth certificate is not really my natural father. He is in Italy and has a different name. If I wanted him to recognize me as his natural child, I'd have to wait three years and have my legal named changed to his. How's that for complications!
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