I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

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I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby mlpjd » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:38 am

I want to apply through my father (born in the US) and grandfather (born in Italy). Everything looks pretty clear that I qualify .... but I am adopted. I was adopted at birth. I have a birth certificate showing my adoptive parents as my "parents". But it makes me nervous applying as an adopted person "jure sanguinis" ... Adopted kids clearly are not "sanguinis". Anyone have any experience with this?

Mary
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby Monica » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:50 pm

that is what the LEGAL documents say so go for it! there is nothing ti dispute it right?
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby Tiffany » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:45 pm

mlpjd wrote:I want to apply through my father (born in the US) and grandfather (born in Italy). Everything looks pretty clear that I qualify .... but I am adopted. I was adopted at birth. I have a birth certificate showing my adoptive parents as my "parents". But it makes me nervous applying as an adopted person "jure sanguinis" ... Adopted kids clearly are not "sanguinis". Anyone have any experience with this?

Mary


Minor chhildren legally adopted by Italian citizens are their children and are entitled to automatic citizenship, same as bio-children would be. No, this will not stand in your way. If you need to refer to anything: http://www.legislationline.org/document ... up/id/5131

CITIZENSHIP LAW OF ITALYNEW PROVISIONS ON NATIONALITYART.1

1. Citizen by birth is:

a) the child of a father or a mother, who are Italian citizens;

b) a person who was born in the territory of the Republic if both parents are unknown or stateless, or if the child does not follow the citizenship of the parents according to the law of the State to which the parents belong.

2. The child of unknown parents who is found abandoned in the territory of the Republic shall, unless possession of another citizenship is proved, be deemed citizen by birth.
ART.2

1. Recognition or judicial statement of filiation, occurred when the child is a minor ( or: during the age of minority of the child ), determines the citizenship of the child pursuant to the provisions of this statute.

2. If the recognized or judicially stated child is of full age, he keeps his own citizenship. Nevertheless he is entitled to choose the citizenship determined by filiation within one year after-

(a) recognition or judicial statement; or

(b) declaration of effectiveness of the foreign provision. 3. The provisions of this article also apply to children in respect of whom paternity or maternity may not be declared, provided their right to maintenance or alimony has been judicially recognized.
ART.3

1. An alien, who is a minor, shall acquire Italian citizenship if he is adopted by an Italian citizen.

2. Paragraph 1 also applies to persons who were adopted before this statute came into force.

3. When revocation of the adoption is based on a fact of the adopted, he loses Italian citizenship if he possesses another citizenship or he regains it.

4. In the other cases of revocation the adopted maintains Italian citizenship. Nevertheless, if revocation occurs when the adopted is of full age, the latter will be entitled to renounce Italian citizenship within one year after the revocation itself, if he possesses another citizenship or he regains it.
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby mlpjd » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:20 pm

whew! That makes me feel better. Thanks.
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby NOLA » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:56 pm

This whole thing about adoption is not so simple. In April of 2008, I was told that as an adopted child (I'm now 62), adopted by Italiani per Nascita (both my adopted parents), I could apply through my grandfather Michele Rubino. However, they told me I would have to obtain my original birth certificate and the Order of Adoption. In New York, these are sealed documents. But through an unbelievable process, first petitioning the Surrogate's Court and then filing an Article 78 in Supreme Court, I obtained the documents. I thought now it will happen. There was a change in someone working at the consolate, and now I was told that they would have to submit my documents to two authorities in Italy. I have been waiting for an answer. Actually, I am Italian in jure sanguinis. My biological mother (now deceased) was Italian (born in Calabria). Her husband, and Italian American, was named on the birth certificate as my father. I was born Jan. 1, l948, the day that a woman could pass citizenship on to her offsprings. Though they were married, they gave me up for adoption, thank God, to my most wonderful parents who are now deceased too. I've read all of the documents in Italian of the citizenship laws, recording documents in Stato Civile, and decisions of the Corte Costituzionale. I've decided if they refuse me, I will make a case in Italy. I won two times under great odds, and I'm not giving up. I would like to add, though, that now, with the help of a friend, maybe I will be spared another "processo."
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby azsumrg1rl » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:29 pm

Both Tiffany and NOLA are correct.

If you are adopted and trying to obtain Italian citizenship through your birth parents, the road will be full of obstacles as your birth certificate is reissued with your adoptive parents' names during the adoption process. In other words, it becomes harder to prove your kinship to your birth parents. If it was a closed adoption, it can be downright impossible.

On the other hand, if you hare adopted and trying to obtain Italian citizenship through your adoptive parents, you don't have to take any extra steps because your birth certificate will list your adoptive parents as your parents. It's no different than when anyone else applies. (In other words, no one knows or cares that you were adopted. All they know is that XX and YX are legally your parents and your birth certificate states this as fact.)
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby mlpjd » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:07 pm

I am going for citizenship through my adoptive paternal grandfather. My biggest worry was that a "long form" birth certificate was not available for me. But they took my short form just fine at the consulate. Now, hopefully I won't have any problem getting it approved in Italy.
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby NOLA » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:16 pm

It does make a difference, depending upon when you were adopted.
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby NOLA » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:23 pm

I just wanted to add new information to this thread. The "adoption" thing is not so simple. Unfortunately for me, using my birth certificate with my adoptive parents' names resulted in them translating small print which indicated an adoptive situation.

It is true that the new law passed in l992 re-affirms the right of children adopted as minors to be considered Italian citizens. However, this refers to children adopted by Italian citizens when the first law for "special adoption" (of minors) was passed by the Italian parliament, that is, l967, which was changed in l983. The statement in Paragraph 2 in the law regarding adoption states that it doesn't matter when the child was adopted, that the law is retroactive. But the Minister of Interno has interpreted this to mean when the Italian Courts recognized the fact of special adoption. Actually, even with "regular adoption" which is the adoption of persons of majority , up until l967, citizenship was not automatically granted to foreigners. Therefore,foreign children who had been adopted by jure sanguinis parents or parent cannot claim citizenship if they were adopted before the l967 law entered "in vigore." Also, I'd like to address the statement on some consular sites that talks about an adopted person who is no longer a minor can obtain Italian citizenship after living in Italy for five years. This is not the real text of the law which states that a person adopted as an adult (usually by people who have no heirs and want to leave their patrimony to someone) can ask for Italian citizenship after living five years in Italy. The other thing is that the foreign decree may have to be examined by the Italian Court before it can be read into Stato Civile. Even some divorce decrees may not be automatically recognized in Italy despite following all the steps that are given on the various consular sites.

As far as my case is concerned, I was turned down because I was adopted in l949. The only recourse I have in this regard is to go to the Constitutional Court and ask that the law be considered as being retroactive even before the concept of adoption of minors was put into their civil code. However, because my biological mother was Italian, born in Italy and not yet an American citizen, I have asked the consulate to see if I can be recognized in this way. I was a premature baby of just 4 pounds, and I think this could have been one of the reasons why my natural parents decided to give me up, fearing illness or perhaps even retardation. They didn't do it immediately, as I remained in the hospital for three months. I am hoping that this will provide the other part that is needed for citizenship, that is, filiazione. Italian Law is very complicated, but I've been studying it for quite a while. I've hired a lawyer in Rome to help me, but like I did two times before, I am continuing to work on my own.
Moral of the story: if you don't have a clear-cut case, be careful.
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby Em » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:42 pm

That is excellent information. NOLA, it seems that if your birth mother was Italian, you should be able to qualify through her. Is it possible to get the original birth certificate? If so, that would simplify matters tremendously. Since you seem to have information about your birth parents, it may be possible to obtain this document.
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Re: I'm adopted ... does that make a difference?

Postby NOLA » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:23 pm

Dear Em,

I have a certified copy of the document on record in the Archives of the City of NY. It has the same number as the number of my birth certificate with my adoptie parents' name. It was Apostilled, and the consulate has it. They are writing Italy to determine if I can qualify through my natural parents. After I told my Italian lawyer that the consulate is asking for "un parere," he told me to wait to see what happens before going ahead with an appeal to the Court. I'm pretty tired of court appeals. I had to petition Surrogates Court for the original order of adoption, and then the Supreme Court for the original birth certificate. I actually do not want to get my hopes up with this next pass. Actually, if they would require me to change my documents to the name of my natural parents, I would not do it. My parents who raised me are my parents and I would not surrender my name and identity. So then, this would mean a court challenge. Vedremo.
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