Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

Moderator: Daniel

Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Carl » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:48 am

I mean to qualify this way:

* rd



STEP 1: Select the relationship between you and your ancestor from Italy.
STEP 2: Determine whether or not you qualify. If you do, find out which documents you will need.
CATEGORY #1: Your father was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis. You must obtain certified copies of the following documents:

1. Your father's birth certificate from Italy, also known as an estratto dell'atto di nascita
2. Your father's certificate of Italian citizenship from Italy, also known as a certificato di cittadinanza italiana (Note: Most Italian embassies and consulates do NOT require this. The only ones we are aware of that do are the Italian consulates in Miami and Chicago. For information on requesting a Certificate of Italian Citizenship through ICGS, contact us at orders@myitaliancitizenship.com.)
3. Your mother's birth certificate
4. Your parents' marriage certificate (If they were married in your native country, you will need an apostille and a translation into Italian.)
5. Your parents' divorce decree/certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
6. Your father's certificate of naturalization OR Italian passport and permanent resident card/green card (Click here if the certificate of naturalization is not available.)
7. Your birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
8. Your father's death certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
9. Your mother's death certificate, if applicable
10. Your marriage certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
11. Your divorce decree/certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
12. Your spouse's birth certificate, if applicable
13. Birth certificates for all your children under the age of eighteen, if applicable (with apostille and translation)

NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" is extremely important in determining whether or not you qualify. Parents who became naturalized citizens of their new country BEFORE the birth of their children lost their Italian citizenship and COULD NOT pass citizenship on to them, while parents who became naturalized AFTER the birth of their children COULD pass citizenship on to them. For example, Achille Berto immigrated to the USA in 1895. He became a naturalized US citizen in 1919 and had a son David in 1921. Citizenship was not passed to David because Achille was an American citizen (naturalized in 1919) at the time of David's birth. Using another example, Massimo Meneghetti immigrated to the USA in 1912, had a daughter Eleanor in 1924 and became a naturalized US citizen in 1936. Citizenship WAS passed to Eleanor because Massimo was still an Italian citizen when she was born.

If your father became a naturalized citizen before your birth, you are not entitled to Italian citizenship jure sanguinis unless you fit into another category.

CATEGORY #2: Your mother was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948 and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis. You must obtain certified copies of the following documents:

1. Your mother's birth certificate from Italy, also known as an estratto dell'atto di nascita
2. Your mother's certificate of Italian citizenship from Italy, also known as a certificato di cittadinanza italiana (Note: Most Italian embassies and consulates do NOT require this. The only ones we are aware of that do are the Italian consulates in Miami and Chicago. For information on requesting a Certificate of Italian Citizenship through ICGS, contact us at orders@myitaliancitizenship.com.)
3. Your father's birth certificate
4. Your parents' marriage certificate (If married outside of Italy, you will need an apostille and a translation into Italian.)
5. Your parents' divorce decree/certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
6. Your mother's certificate of naturalization OR Italian passport and permanent resident card/green card (Click here if the certificate of naturalization is not available.)
7. Your birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
8. Your mother's death certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
9. Your father's death certificate, if applicable
10. Your marriage certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
11. Your divorce decree/certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
12. Your spouse's birth certificate, if applicable
13. Birth certificates for all your children under the age of eighteen, if applicable (with apostille and translation)

NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" is extremely important in determining whether or not you qualify. Parents who became naturalized citizens of their new country BEFORE the birth of their children lost their Italian citizenship and COULD NOT pass citizenship on to them, while parents who became naturalized AFTER the birth of their children COULD pass citizenship on to them. For example, Achille Berto immigrated to the USA in 1895. He became a naturalized US citizen in 1919 and had a son David in 1921. Citizenship was not passed to David because Achille was an American citizen (naturalized in 1919) at the time of David's birth. Using another example, Massimo Meneghetti immigrated to the USA in 1912, had a daughter Eleanor in 1924 and became a naturalized US citizen in 1936. Citizenship WAS passed to Eleanor because Massimo was still an Italian citizen when she was born.

If your mother became a naturalized citizen before your birth, you are not entitled to Italian citizenship jure sanguinis unless you fit into another category.

CATEGORY #3: Your father was born in your native country, your paternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, and neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis. You must obtain certified copies of the following documents:

1. Your paternal grandfather's birth certificate from Italy, also known as an estratto dell'atto di nascita
2. Your paternal grandfather's certificate of Italian citizenship from Italy, also known as a certificato di cittadinanza italiana (Note: Most Italian embassies and consulates do NOT require this. The only ones we are aware of that do are the Italian consulates in Miami and Chicago. For information on requesting a Certificate of Italian Citizenship through ICGS, contact us at orders@myitaliancitizenship.com.)
3. Your paternal grandmother's birth certificate
4. Your grandparents' marriage certificate (If married outside of Italy, you will need an apostille and a translation into Italian.)
5. Your paternal grandfather's certificate of naturalization OR Italian passport and permanent resident card/green card (Click here if the certificate of naturalization is not available.)
6. Your father's birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
7. Your mother's birth certificate
8. Your parents' marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
9. Your birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
10. Your marriage certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
11. Your spouse's birth certificate, if applicable
12. Birth certificates for all your children under the age of eighteen, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
13. Any applicable divorce decrees/certificates (with apostille and translation)
14. Death certificates for anyone listed above (with apostille and translation, if for your father or grandfather)

NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" is extremely important in determining whether or not you qualify. Parents who became naturalized citizens of their new country BEFORE the birth of their children lost their Italian citizenship and COULD NOT pass citizenship on to them, while parents who became naturalized AFTER the birth of their children COULD pass citizenship on to them. For example, Achille Berto immigrated to the USA in 1895. He became a naturalized US citizen in 1919 and had a son David in 1921. Citizenship was not passed to David because Achille was an American citizen (naturalized in 1919) at the time of David's birth. Using another example, Massimo Meneghetti immigrated to the USA in 1912, had a daughter Eleanor in 1924 and became a naturalized US citizen in 1936. Citizenship WAS passed to Eleanor because Massimo was still an Italian citizen when she was born.

If your grandfather became a naturalized citizen before your father's birth, you are not entitled to Italian citizenship jure sanguinis unless you fit into another category.

CATEGORY #4: Your father was born in your native country after January 1st, 1948, your paternal grandmother was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, and neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis. You must obtain certified copies of the following documents:

1. Your paternal grandmother's birth certificate from Italy, also known as an estratto dell'atto di nascita
2. Your paternal grandmother's certificate of Italian citizenship from Italy, also known as a certificato di cittadinanza italiana (Note: Most Italian embassies and consulates do NOT require this. The only ones we are aware of that do are the Italian consulates in Miami and Chicago. For information on requesting a Certificate of Italian Citizenship through ICGS, contact us at orders@myitaliancitizenship.com.)
3. Your paternal grandfather's birth certificate
4. Your grandparents' marriage certificate (If married outside of Italy, you will need an apostille and a translation into Italian.)
5. Your paternal grandmother's certificate of naturalization OR Italian passport and permanent resident card/green card (Click here if the certificate of naturalization is not available.)
6. Your father's birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
7. Your mother's birth certificate
8. Your parents' marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
9. Your birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
10. Your marriage certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
11. Your spouse's birth certificate, if applicable
12. Birth certificates for all your children under the age of eighteen, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
13. Any applicable divorce decrees/certificates (with apostille and translation)
14. Death certificates for anyone listed above (with apostille and translation, if for your father or grandmother)

NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" is extremely important in determining whether or not you qualify. Parents who became naturalized citizens of their new country BEFORE the birth of their children lost their Italian citizenship and COULD NOT pass citizenship on to them, while parents who became naturalized AFTER the birth of their children COULD pass citizenship on to them. For example, Achille Berto immigrated to the USA in 1895. He became a naturalized US citizen in 1919 and had a son David in 1921. Citizenship was not passed to David because Achille was an American citizen (naturalized in 1919) at the time of David's birth. Using another example, Massimo Meneghetti immigrated to the USA in 1912, had a daughter Eleanor in 1924 and became a naturalized US citizen in 1936. Citizenship WAS passed to Eleanor because Massimo was still an Italian citizen when she was born.

If your grandmother became a naturalized citizen before your father's birth, you are not entitled to Italian citizenship jure sanguinis unless you fit into another category.

CATEGORY #5: Your mother was born in your native country, your maternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948, and neither you nor your mother ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis. You must obtain certified copies of the following documents:

1. Your maternal grandfather's birth certificate from Italy, also known as an estratto dell'atto di nascita
2. Your maternal grandfather's certificate of Italian citizenship from Italy, also known as a certificato di cittadinanza italiana (Note: Most Italian embassies and consulates do NOT require this. The only ones we are aware of that do are the Italian consulates in Miami and Chicago. For information on requesting a Certificate of Italian Citizenship through ICGS, contact us at orders@myitaliancitizenship.com.)
3. Your maternal grandmother's birth certificate
4. Your grandparents' marriage certificate (If married outside of Italy, you will need an apostille and a translation into Italian.)
5. Your maternal grandfather's certificate of naturalization OR Italian passport and permanent resident card/green card (Click here if the certificate of naturalization is not available.)
6. Your mother's birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
7. Your father's birth certificate
8. Your parents' marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
9. Your birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
10. Your marriage certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
11. Your spouse's birth certificate, if applicable
12. Birth certificates for all your children under the age of eighteen, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
13. Any applicable divorce decrees/certificates (with apostille and translation)
14. Death certificates for anyone listed above (with apostille and translation, if for your mother or grandfather)

NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" is extremely important in determining whether or not you qualify. Parents who became naturalized citizens of their new country BEFORE the birth of their children lost their Italian citizenship and COULD NOT pass citizenship on to them, while parents who became naturalized AFTER the birth of their children COULD pass citizenship on to them. For example, Achille Berto immigrated to the USA in 1895. He became a naturalized US citizen in 1919 and had a son David in 1921. Citizenship was not passed to David because Achille was an American citizen (naturalized in 1919) at the time of David's birth. Using another example, Massimo Meneghetti immigrated to the USA in 1912, had a daughter Eleanor in 1924 and became a naturalized US citizen in 1936. Citizenship WAS passed to Eleanor because Massimo was still an Italian citizen when she was born.

1) I have my maternal grandmother's birth certificate from Italy. THAT was something, getting that, boy! She never became American.
2) I DO not have my grandfather's certificate of Italian citizenship but I do have his Italian birth certificate and proof my Mom was born before he became American.
3) I do have my maternal grandfather's Italian birth certificate.
4) I DO have my maternal grandparents marriage certificate but I don't know WHAT an apostille is or how to get it.
5) I have my maternal grandfather's Certificate of Naturalization
6) I DO have my Mom's birth certificate but NO apostille.
7) I DO have my father's Croatian birth certificate. (THAT was something too!)
8) I DO have my parent's marriage certificate but again, no apostille.
9) I have my birth certificate but no apostille.
10) I have my marriage certificate without any apostille. (She's NOT Italian.)
11) I do have my spouces birth certificate but I don't see how it would be necessary.
12) Kids are all over the age of 18.
13) I've never been divorced so I have no divorce papers.
14) ONLY have my grandmother's death certificate. Don't know HOW I'd get grandfathers. Do I really need it. He'd be 134!

Tell me about apostilles! What are they and how do you get them.

What number do I call to make an appointment at the NYC consulate? Shall I get apostilles before going?

Thanks.
Carl
 
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Location: NY

Wait!

Postby Carl » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:08 am

I have my Grandfather's DEATH Certificate on the way too. After posting the above I had a recollection of my mother telling me the name of the name of thee town WAY Upstate NY that my Grandfather died in. I called the county clerk and sure enough, it's on it's way for ten bucks.

I think I just need apostilles, unless I need my Mom's death certificate too.
Carl
 
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Location: NY

Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Em » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:12 pm

LOL! Carl, choose only one. The NYC Consulate is now asking for documents from both the Italian and non-Italian line. I think the telephone number for appointments is posted on the consulate's web page.
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Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby idmaclean » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:27 pm

Hi Em,

The NYC consulate is now asking for both sides? This is really going to add a unneeded layer of complexity to my files.

My appointment is in November.
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Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Em » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:15 pm

The NY Consulate is getting difficult lately. Try to get as much as possible from the non-Italian line, and go in with what you have. If the Italian line is complete, they may let some of it go. If they still want more documents, you can mail it to them when you receive them.

It's really a shame, though. The non-Italian line is really not necessary in proving citizenship.
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Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Carl » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:45 pm

Both sides! Okay. My mother's line is Italian. My father's Croatian. While on this birth certificate tear I got carried away for awhile there and actually managed (GET THIS) to secure a copy of my father's birth certificate from a small church in Croatia! He was born in 1902!

You know what ELSE I did? I went to familytreedna.com and sent them cheek swabs and had my genetics tested. According to them there is virtually no admixture in my bloodlines. I go back to Roman times in Sicily and in Croatia. They say there's Arab, African, etc. in Sicilian bloodlines? Well, not in mine.

So is that Croatian birth certificate enough or shall I just shoot myself?
Carl
 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:26 am
Location: NY

Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Em » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:32 pm

Definitely don't shoot yourself. The bc should be fine. BTW, you do mean gf or ggf, right?
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Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Carl » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:07 pm

"you do mean gf or ggf, right?"

I mean to go either grandfather or grandmother but when I went down this road I meant grandfather. Good?

SO hard!

You know, when I wanted a pistol permit in NY I was told it was SO hard and there were agencies in NY I should consult but I thought "HEY! I'm legit! If not me, WHO?" So I walked into the police station, handed them my info, and said "I'll be back in a week and I expect you to help me." I came back a week later and they smiled at me and helped me fill out the forms. They'd checked me out and thought "Yeah. If not him, WHO?"

I intend to walk into to the consulate and say "Here's my paperwork. I come able to retired comfortably and ready to spend my life savings in Italy. I need nothing from Italy but a nice place to live. Here's my paperwork. Call me when it's a YES." Will that work?

Carl
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Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Em » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:14 pm

That's the spirit, Carl. I wish you the best of luck. Just a word on the grandmother, though. Remember that she could not pass on her citizenship before 1948, so if she had a child before then, you would be forced to use your grandfather's line.
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Em
 
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Grandfather then?

Postby Carl » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:20 am

Huh! Well, my grandmother never became an American citizen but my Mom was born before 1948. WAY before. 40 years before! So if this is one of the rules I'm going with my grandfather. He was Italian and not a naturalized American when she was born, so that works as I read it. Is this correct?
Carl
 
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Location: NY

Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Em » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:38 am

Those are indeed the rules. Women could not pass citizenship before 1948. It has disqualified many potential applicants.

But now I need to ask one more question. Are you going through your mother's line (GF, M, you)? If so, were YOU born after 1948?

If the line is GF, F, YOU, the year of your birth is not at issue.
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Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Carl » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:47 am

I am going via my Mom's father. My maternal grandfather. Category #5. I was born in 1951.

How necessary are translations of the various certificates?
Carl
 
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Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Carl » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:57 am

Do you work for/with the consulate? You certainly have proven to be expert in this matter.

What number shall I call at the consulate? I'll set an appointment today. How long is the wait, about? If it's awhile I'll have the apostilles, translations, etc.

My neighbors are Sicilians but I'm not sure about their translating abilities. I have a friend though. I'll reach out to her.
Carl
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:26 am
Location: NY

Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby Carl » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:08 am

Ah!

Angelo is local and his native language is Italian although he speaks English perfectly AND he owes me a favor :-)

He can do any necessary translations. Are they actually necessary? A translation of my birth certificate into Italian I mean?
Carl
 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:26 am
Location: NY

Re: Okay! What am I missing? Help! It's taken me TWO YEARS!

Postby enzo46 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:25 pm

here is a quick question. If I am currently single and my children are all over the age of 21, do I need to give divorce papers. I have been told no but does anyone have a different answer?
Enzo
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