Italian Greatgrandfather married American

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

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Re: Italian Greatgrandfather married American

Postby uwlaw » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:02 am

geografia wrote :
> #2 is key. My grandfather was born in Italy (to an Italian father and
> American mother). So he was an Italian citizen. Damn it, I really need to
> get his birth certificate!!

Actually, #1 is really your focus, not #2. Although not stated clearly on the Embassy's website, being born in Italy to someone other than an Italian parent only grants citizenship in the limited circumstances specified: cases in which the parents are unknown, stateless or do not transmit their own citizenship to their child according to the legislation of the State to which they belong, as well as children found abandoned in Italy and for whom it is impossible to determine status civitatis (citizenship). If I recall, none of these apply in your case.

Besides, the question isn't really whether your grandfather was an Italian citizen at birth, right? I thought you were pretty sure that your GGF was still an Italian citizen at that time, which would have made your GF an Italian citizen at birth regardless of where he was born (see #1 above). Isn't the real question whether your GGF subsequently naturalized while your GF was still a minor, or whether your GF subsequently naturalized once he reached the age of majority (if not alreadly a US citizen), thus causing loss of Italiian citizenship?
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Re: Italian Greatgrandfather married American

Postby NOLA » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:11 pm

Just wanted to clarify this "adoption" thing. First, the Washington Consolate site says that if the adopted person is no longer a minor, they can elect to become citizens after 5 years of living in Italy. This is positively false. The New Law for Citizenship l992 does talk about adult adoptees, but that law refers to the adoption laws that have been on the books since l912 (abrogated). Italian law provided that people who had reached middle age without heirs could elect to adopt an adult (a person who had reached majority, first l6 years than l8) so that they could transfer their possessions to someone else and preserve their family name. This was not and is not adoption as we know it. The l992 law says nothing about once an adopted child becomes an adult, only that at majority, if they are in possession of another citizenship, they can elect not to be Italian.

Also, I have just found out that a child adopted before the l967 law on "special adoption," which is adoption of minors and the termination of all family ties to the biological family, cannot get Italian citizenship. At least that was what they told me in NY. I am looking into this right now.
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Re: Italian Greatgrandfather married American

Postby geografia » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:18 pm

NOLA, I think you might have posted in the wrong thread? :)

uwlaw, yes you are right about #1 applying more than or as much as #2.

On another note, I have a question for anyone. I went through my records again and pulled out the baptismal record of my GF. Upon examination, I believe this IS my GF's birth record. He was born in an apartment in Rome in 1911. Here is the record in Italian:

L'anno millenovencento undici (1911) nel giorno dieci (10) del mese di Novembre é stato battezzato con licenza ece. da. b. Fiavo Gisueppe Parraglia vice parr. di S. Maria degli Angeli, nella casa poste in Via Principe Amedeo N. 11 int. 5. Un fanciullo di sesso maschile figlio legittimo di Enrico de Socio di Pasquale, di Campobasso, domie in Roma e di Ida Cosden di Giorgio, di Maryland, Stati Uniti, Cecil County. Nato il giorno trenta (30) di ottobre anno millenovecento undici (1911) ad ore 12 meridi. sotto quenta parrocchia di S. Maria degli Angeli alle Ferme, in Via Principe Amedeo N. 11 int. 5.

Cui furono imposti i nomi: Giorgio Pasquale

éssendo padrino Pasquale de Socio fu Gaetano nato e domie in Campobasso e per procura Bianca Falconi **** di Antonio, di Barano (Bologna) domie Roma parr. di S. Vitale, e madrina Amalia d'Alessandro in de Socio fu Gennaro nato e domie in Campobasso.

Le indicazioni della nascita e delle generalita sono state data dal Sig. Enrico de Socio che la dichionato essere il bambion legittimo figlio.

IS THIS A BIRTH RECORD? Could births have been registered with a church only in those days (1911)? This record comes from a prominent church in Rome: Santa Maria degli Angeli.
Thanks in advance!!
Last edited by geografia on Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Italian Greatgrandfather married American

Postby CPA21 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:13 am

By 1911 one would expect the birth records to be recorded and issued from Stato Civile. The records I received from Italy were for ancestors born between 1876 and 1926. All of the birth certificates were issued by stato civile for the commune. While none were from Rome I would expect Rome to also follow the same practice.
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Re: Italian Greatgrandfather married American

Postby geografia » Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:30 pm

CPA21, good point. But as you can see from the previous posts, this case isn't so clean. (I guess most people's aren't either). I'm still trying to see if any Consular Report of Birth Abroad was filed at the US Embassy in Rome.
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Re: Italian Greatgrandfather married American

Postby geografia » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:16 pm

No luck with a "Consular Report of Birth Abroad" regarding my GF. There is no record. Seems his birth simply went unregistered in both Italy and the United States. I wonder how he was able to get a Social Security Card, a Passport, and a Commission in the US Navy.

Frustrating. Makes no sense.
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