Nat Records From County Level...Will Work?

Determine if an ancestor was ever naturalized and, if so, discuss your consulate's requirements for proving this.

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Nat Records From County Level...Will Work?

Postby lanelashbrook » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:47 pm

I recieved a certified copy of my great-great grandfather's Declaration of Intent, Petition for Naturalization, and Oath of Allegiance from the county and city (Syracuse) in which he lived in New York state. The documents are on regular copy paper but they have a raised, colored seal and are signed by the county clerk.

I would be using the Miami Consulate, which technically requires a Certificate of Naturalization, although I have heard of individuals using the Petition, Oath, etc. in Miami and receiving citizenship. My documents clearly state the date my ancestor became an American citizen and the date the certificate of Naturalization was issued.

Given the fact that I might move in the next year anyway, does anyone think that these documents would work in Miami or at any consulate??

Thanks for your input!

Jason
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Postby Em » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:32 am

Jason, you should be fine with those.
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Postby lanelashbrook » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:24 am

Ok - Thanks!
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Postby charlie7 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:52 pm

I have a similiar question: the county clerk has found a Declaration of Intent from my great-grandfather, but apparently he never completed the process, and as far as they know, he never became a U.S. citizen. The declaration was dated 10 years after my grandfather was born, in the U.S. Will a certified and translated copy of this document be all that I need so as to proof that there is a continuous line of Italian citizenship?
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Postby capitul » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:09 pm

^^
Personally, I'd give it a shot and see what happens. Those no record found documents can be a real hastle to obtain, it appears!
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Postby Miserdo » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:07 am

charlie7 wrote:I have a similiar question: the county clerk has found a Declaration of Intent from my great-grandfather, but apparently he never completed the process, and as far as they know, he never became a U.S. citizen. The declaration was dated 10 years after my grandfather was born, in the U.S. Will a certified and translated copy of this document be all that I need so as to proof that there is a continuous line of Italian citizenship?

A declaration of intention does not prove that the individual never renounced Italian citizenship. You need a certified no record found letter from USCIS. Some consulates also require additional proof- this info should be on the consulate website.
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You have a record

Postby CPA21 » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:11 am

Do the laws of logic apply to this process?

If you have a Declaration of Intent filed years after your grandfather was born in the US you have demonstrated an unbroken chain of citizenship. According to law and logic you need to demonstrate that your greatgrandfather was an Italian citizen on the date that your grandfather was born. The Declaration of Intent does this.

Your greatgrandfather would not be filing a Declaration of Intent after becoming a US citizen.

It is a nice point of information to know when if ever your greatgrandfather naturalized.

Do the laws of logic apply to this process?
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Re: You have a record

Postby Em » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:13 pm

CPA21 wrote:Do the laws of logic apply to this process?

Sometimes yes, but sometimes no. As you point out, it makes no sense to file a declaration of intent if you've already naturalized. Sometimes, however, the consular officials are amazingly inflexible.
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Postby iacuone » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:51 am

I am in the same boat, all of those docs from County Court in which my ancestor was naturalized (original docs there). Are these sufficient, and should I get an apostille on them or is certified copies from County enough?
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Citizenship docs from county courthouse

Postby CPA21 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:15 pm

Some consulates are very happy to accept certified copies of the documents from the county courthouse others want more. You need to learn what the rule will be for the consulate that you will be applying at.

If you already have all the county documents you may be able to get a certificate of citizenship from USCIS. File the form G639 with copies of all the documents and request a copy of the certificate of citizenship. Remember the oath of allegiance includes the certificate of citizenship number. Assuming that your ancestor was nauralized after 1906 all that this process will take is time.
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Re: Nat Records From County Level...Will Work?

Postby magendim » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:27 pm

lanelashbrook wrote:I recieved a certified copy of my great-great grandfather's Declaration of Intent, Petition for Naturalization, and Oath of Allegiance from the county and city (Syracuse) in which he lived in New York state. The documents are on regular copy paper but they have a raised, colored seal and are signed by the county clerk.



I have the same thing from a PA county and that's what I'm going to use at SF next month. I think one key thing is that the Oath has the nat certificate number listed. The clerk said the actual naturalization certificate was given to the person once they took their oath and county did not keep a copy. They are microfilm copies with the clerks seal and signature. I have been told that this is adequate., but guess I'll find out next month!

Mike
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Postby jamato » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:17 am

magendim-- can you use the Certificate Number to order a certified copy of the documents you mentioned via NARA Online?
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Postby magendim » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:40 pm

If your ancestor was naturalized in a county court, NARA will not have a record, as they only archive records from the federal courts.

I checked with NARA first and got the note below back from them, then went to the county court and found the records there.

From Philly NARA: "The National Archives is the repository of naturalization records for the Federal District and Circuit Courts. The indexes for the Federal Courts in Middle District Pennsylvania were searched for the years 1901-1990. Michael Dorso was not found in the index.

In the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries an immigrant could apply for naturalization in any court: city, county, state, or federal. The naturalization records are held by each court or their repository. The National Archives only holds records for Federal courts. We recommend that you contact the Luzerne County Courthouse to request a naturalization search of county records."
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Postby iacuone » Thu May 01, 2008 12:14 pm

I'm in your boat. Naturalized in County Court, so can't get NARA records. Will the County Court notarized Naturalization docs (with Apostille) be enough, or do we still need to get copies from USCIS, which is a nightmare?
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Postby magendim » Thu May 01, 2008 1:35 pm

iacuone wrote:I'm in your boat. Naturalized in County Court, so can't get NARA records. Will the County Court notarized Naturalization docs (with Apostille) be enough, or do we still need to get copies from USCIS, which is a nightmare?


As far as I know, yes, that will work. They only need to have the county certification (raised seal and clerk stamp/sig). No need to notarize or apostille.
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