Minor naturalization

Determine if an ancestor was ever naturalized and, if so, discuss your consulate's requirements for proving this.

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Minor naturalization

Postby barbaracarletta » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:49 am

My great grandparents were born in Italy (1874/1876), and had three of their nine children born in Italy, including my grandfather, in 1907. (Some were born in the US and he was born on a return trip to Italy). When my GGF naturalized in 1923, 8 of the 9 children- those under 21- were listed on his naturalization certificate, including my grandfather. From other posts, it seems that this would mean my grandfather was also naturalized in 1923 (even though he doesn't have his own forms) but it strikes me as curious, since his siblings who also appear on the form were US born. Why would a US born person need to naturalize?
Can a minor who never made his own petition for naturalization still break the chain of jure sanguinis? He has no other papers of his own.

I ask, because I think his name on the certificate as minor child (age 16) disqualifies me, since this occured before my father's birth (1934), and of course, disqualification is not the answer I am looking for. Incidentally, my great grandmother did not have her name on that naturalization, but on her own dated 1944.

Anyone out there see a loophole for me??
thanks
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Re: Minor naturalization

Postby CPA21 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:20 am

The petition for citizenship lists ALL children US born included. When my grandmother naturalized her four living children were listed although all four had been born in the US.

It appears from your posting that your ancestor was naturalized as a minor when his father was naturalized. Do you have any other options?
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Re: Minor naturalization

Postby barbaracarletta » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:29 pm

Yes, he was naturalized along with his father. But my question is: is a minor who did not make his OWN petition for naturalization still considered as having renounced his rights to citizenship if it was done "to" or for him? As a minor, was he really capable of making the decision to renounce his citizenship? I don't have other options.
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Re: Minor naturalization

Postby CPA21 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:46 pm

According to the Italian government his parents made the decision for him. His citizenship was renounced when they naturalized.

This may not be the answer you are seeking but it is the answer.
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Re: Minor naturalization

Postby Destin2BeItaliano » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:57 pm

I'm not aware of any government that doesn't agree that a parent of a minor child who is naturalized as having renounced their child's citizenship as well. Citizenship of minors is questionable in general. A citizen/subject of a country has the RIGHT to reside permanently within said countries borders. If a parent renounces their citizenship and their child retains theirs then they could, upon returning to the country they renounced refuse to leave until their child reached the age of majority. It would create a sort of "have your cake and eat it too" situation. Sort of how with illegal aliens who come to the U.S. unlawfully, give birth to a child who is by birth in the territory of the U.S. a citizen, while the parent remains an illegal alien. However, though theoretically the child could be placed into foster care and the parent(s) deported, this rarely happens. The same situation could occur if a minor child was renounced on their behalf when a parent naturalizes. Of course this would usually cease to be a problem once the child reached the age of 18 or whatever the majority of a given country happens to be.

However, one could argue the point that under Italian law, an individual may opt to apply for reinstatement of their citizenship after having renounced it. Of course they could only do so if they are still living. If they are deceased then I imagine the Italian government would counter the argument with the inability of the person in question to seek reinstatement.
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Re: Minor naturalization

Postby Em » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:50 pm

Reinstatement of Italian citizenship after naturalization requires residence in Italy. That would probably be a bit difficult for someone no longer living. :)

But even if your ancestor were still living and wished to reinstate his Italian citizenship, this reinstatment would only apply to him and his minor children.
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