Need help finding grandfathers record

Determine if an ancestor was ever naturalized and, if so, discuss your consulate's requirements for proving this.

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Need help finding grandfathers record

Postby sandracapri » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:11 pm

I thought I was good to go when I found my grandfather to be listed as an alien from Italy in the 1930 census, (my dad born,1928) , until the National Archives of the Greater Lakes in Chicago could only find my Grandmothers Naturalization records from 1942. Looks like laws say the female can not pass linkage before 1948. Still True?

In Italy, my Grandfathers Family only had enough land for 4 sons to farm. My Grandfather, the middle son, pulled the short straw and came to the US at age 16 not speaking a word of English. I am not ever sure if he was Naturalized, but do remember him traveling back and forth to Italy. Could a non Naturalized person travel on an American passport. I was told at the archives, they were able to hold a Social Security Card.

I am waiting for a record index # for my grandfather. Do I need to wait for that before I go to Lee Summit, MO for a certification of Non-Existence Naturalization records? If he was never Naturalized, do I need all 4 of the following for the Italian Embassy? 1.USCIS,2.NARA 3. Country Court (What is this?) 4. Census Report from US Dept. of Commerce?

What should I do??? Help!
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Re: Need help finding grandfathers record

Postby azsumrg1rl » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:48 pm

You can find a good explanation regarding the 1948 law here: http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.org/guide-to-major-italian-citizenship-related-laws-t47.html

Essentially, the issue is not your grandmother's date of naturalization. The issue is when her child (your parent) was born. If her child was a male (your father), all that matters is that he was born before she naturalized. If her child was female (your mother), she would have to have been born before the grandmother naturalized, but after 1948. XXXX EDIT: Please see below for a correction regarding the 1948 law, as the explanation in this paragraph is not accurate. Sorry. XXXX

The next step in searching for your grandfather's naturalization records is to request a letter of no records from the NARA office you've already worked with. Then you'll need to put in a request for his naturalization records with the appropriate county court. To determine the appropriate county court, you may need to do some research, but figuring out which county your grandfather resided when he may have naturalized is a good place to start.

Also, to which consular office will you be submitting your citizenship application?
Last edited by azsumrg1rl on Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Need help finding grandfathers record

Postby zagnut » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:28 pm

"If her child was a male (your father), all that matters is that he was born before she naturalized. If her child was female (your mother), she would have to have been born before the grandmother naturalized, but after 1948. "

No, she could not pass Italian citizenship to a male or female child prior to 1948. The gender of the parent is what matters, not the child.
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Re: Need help finding grandfathers record

Postby azsumrg1rl » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:57 pm

Sorry, I'm coming down with an awful cold and am trying to help through a bit of a haze. As Zagnut has said, my explanation was not correct. Since your grandmother naturalized prior to 1948, it is a bit of a moot point as she was no longer an Italian citizen. However, to correct my previous post explaining how the 1948 law works: If her child (your parent) was born prior to 1948, she could not pass on citizenship. If the child (your parent) was born after 1948, she could pass on citizenship.
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Re: Need help finding grandfathers record

Postby sandracapri » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:55 pm

Thanks for your help, that is what I thought,but was hoping it was not still the case. I will not be able to go through my grandmother because my father was born in 1928 and she was naturalized in 1942, prior to 1948 law.
So then, I'm back to the "Where are my Grandfathers Naturalization papers if they weren't there in Chicago with my Grandmothers papers?" They should have been in the same place. Could he have traveled back and forth to Italy on an American passport if he was never naturalized?
For no records Report, do I need to prove this in 4 areas?
I am going to the New York City Embassy.
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Re: Need help finding grandfathers record

Postby zagnut » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:49 am

"Could he have traveled back and forth to Italy on an American passport if he was never naturalized?"
No, not if he was an Italian citizen. He would have to naturalize to get a US passport.

It's county court- some naturalizations were done in county courts.

You need to check NARA, USCIS (form G-1041), local courts where he lived, and some consulates want a certified copy of census.
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Re: Need help finding grandfathers record

Postby sandracapri » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:26 pm

I found the Naturalization records. The Name was spelled wrong! ( You must try any spelling anyone can think of.)
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