Detroit's Policy?

Share information about your experiences with the citizenship department of a particular Italian (or other) embassy or consulate.

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Detroit's Policy?

Postby taylor » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:22 pm

I called the citizenship office at the Detroit Consulate today and was told by the woman working that it's "impossible" to process an application in which the blood-line goes beyond three generations. I'm applying through my gggf, so I would be unable to claim citizenship according to her. Thoughts? I had been under the impression that there was no generational limit.
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Postby zagnut » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:27 pm

What's GGGF's naturalization date? Detroit may be refusing to accept naturalizations prior to 1912.
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Postby taylor » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:00 am

He naturalized in 1922: ggf was born in 1915. She even asked about the naturalization date so it can't be the 1912 rule.
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Postby Tiffany » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:17 am

Umm, there is no generational limit on citizenship jure sanguinis. She is wrong.
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Postby matta » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:20 am

When did he leave Italy and from which region?

As long as he left Italy after unification and naturalized after 1912, the consulate is wrong. I would take my case to the Consulate General or to the Embassy. At minimum, call again and ask for the specific law that imposes a generational limit.

Hopefully, she'll look it up and realize she's wrong. If she actually can cite a law, we'll take a look and see what the issue is.
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Postby taylor » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:23 am

Thanks Tiffany, that's what I thought. Ugh, I originally thought that I was lucky to be able to apply at Detroit, but my I'm getting a bit worried with the people who work there...this is the second time they've given me false info. I swear, it's like they're trying to discourage me from applying.
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Postby matta » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:28 am

taylor wrote:Thanks Tiffany, that's what I thought. Ugh, I originally thought that I was lucky to be able to apply at Detroit, but my I'm getting a bit worried with the people who work there...this is the second time they've given me false info. I swear, it's like they're trying to discourage me from applying.


They're not the only consulate that does that (provides false information and actively discourages an application).
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Postby taylor » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:33 am

Matta: he came from the Veneto region (comune of Lorenzago di Cadore) to the U.S. in 1893, so well after the unification. I kind of got the impression that the woman at the consulate didn't know what she was talking about, as soon as she heard "great-great-grandfather" she kind of freaked out and was like "Oh no no no! Impossible!" then asked someone in italian "Hey, this kid wants to apply through 4 generations, that's too many right?" Now I'm wondering if everything else they told me was incorrect too!
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Postby matta » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:38 am

taylor wrote:Matta: he came from the Veneto region (comune of Lorenzago di Cadore) to the U.S. in 1893, so well after the unification. I kind of got the impression that the woman at the consulate didn't know what she was talking about, as soon as she heard "great-great-grandfather" she kind of freaked out and was like "Oh no no no! Impossible!" then asked someone in italian "Hey, this kid wants to apply through 4 generations, that's too many right?" Now I'm wondering if everything else they told me was incorrect too!


I love the great job they seem to be doing in training the consulate officials. You'd think that someone would start in a country without a lot of applications (say, an EU country or a country with low Italian population), then get "promoted" to a high-application country.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case, and we're getting seemingly under trained staff at major US consulates.
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Postby taylor » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:59 am

It's ridiculous, right? Italian bureaucracy makes our own government seem like some incredibly efficient system from the future.
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Postby zagnut » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:37 am

If you think the consulates are bad wait till you deal with the questura or motorizzazione civile.
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Italian citizenship after many generations.

Postby Davide » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:47 am

Well, I really hope you pursue this matter. According to present Italian law, if you qualify de iure sanguinis, it is your right no matter how many generations have past.

That being said, there does seem to be some concern in Italy about people seeking recognition of Italian citizenship after so many generations. According to those concerned, after so many generations there is often, "no longer any connection to Italy, not even a sentimental one." They often cite the inability of such people to relate to Italian culture and language. And there seems to be a real concern about such people voting in Italian elections.

Secondly, if I am not mistaken, Italy is the only EU country that allows so many generations for de iure sanguinis recognition. Most other EU countries allow only up to the second generation.

As many already know, foreigners of Italian decent who cannot claim de iure sanguinis recognition, can be granted Italian citizenship by living legally in Italy for 2 years, only up to the second generation. So there does seem to be this second generation thing already in the law.

In any event, "in bocca a lupo!"
Last edited by Davide on Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Em » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:57 am

That second-generation thing that Davide describes may be what is causing confusion. In addition, the uniform instruction page the consulates have adopted does not take citizenship back beyond the grandparents, and that may also confuse them.

If you can't convince them of this, why not simply ask your parent to apply. Then your application goes back only one generation.
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Postby zagnut » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:29 pm

Just curious- is the "de" French?
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"de"

Postby Davide » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:47 pm

Salve,

No, "de" is not French here. It is Latin, meaning by or of, "de iure sanguinis" I=J.
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