Italian Dual Citizenship Message Board

Who is applying for naturalization other than by marriage when residing outside of Italy itself?

I see nothing saying they are applying outside of Italy. The embassy website is simply providing information on naturalization, which may entail the interested party going to Italy (as in the case of reacquisition, for example).

wilberwalker wrote:Yeah...this is news that seems strange. And wondering how the Italian embassy is going to pay the fees for searching criminal background when they make you pay to get the fingerprints for naturalization seems odd as well.

It's a case of taking snippets of information out of context and then trying to connect them.

For example, the application and living ascendant declaration forms request the person to list all the places they've lived. This may be used by the consulate to verify that the applicant has not renounced Italian citizenship at another consulate. Yet the person a few posts above who linked to a thread on that topic presumed it was for purposes of conducting a criminal background investigation.

Since there seems to be a lot of discussion around the criminal check, I'm copying the exact wording from the Citizenship page of the Italian Embassy in D.C... note that they mention tax forms as well...

DOCUMENTATION TO BE PRESENTED WITH APPLICATION FOR CITIZENSHIP

Documentation SELF-CERTIFIABLE: Certificate from the General Records Office with revenue stamp; Certificate of family situation with revenue stamp; Certificate of residence history; if there is more than one municipality of legal residence, certification of residence history for each municipality must be provided with revenue stamp; Authenticated copies of tax forms 740 or 101 for the three years immediately preceding application, or certificate issued by the authorised tax office of income earned in the three years immediately preceding application.

Documentation NOT SELF-CERTIFIABLE: Application for citizenship to be made on a pre-printed form available at the Prefecture of the place of residence; birth certificate from country of origin with all pertinent data; in the case of documented impossibility, statement issued by the diplomatic or consular authorities of the country of origin, duly translated and witnessed, indicating name, surname, date and place of birth as well as names of applicant’s father and mother; Criminal record from applicant’s country of origin and country of residence (self-certificate from EU citizens only); Authorisation of the authorities of the country of origin to release all pertinent information on the applicant that may be requested by the Italian diplomatic authorities, using the pre-printed form available from the Prefecture; Declaration renouncing the protection of the Italian diplomatic and consular authorities from the authorities of the country of origin, using the pre-printed form available at the Prefecture (only for applicants requesting citizenship in order to reside in Italy) Certificate with revenue stamp of Italian citizenship of spouse (only for those applying for citizenship following matrimony). After application is made the following additional documentation will be requested by the competent authorities: Certificate concerning charges pending in the applicant’s area of residence issued by the Public Prosecutor’s Office at the locally authorised courts; Data concerning the applicant’s entrance and period of stay; Copy of marriage certificate from the Italian municipality where the marriage is registered (only for those applying for citizenship following matrimony).

Yes, I read that when the other poster first mentioned it. Again, the embassy site mentions the criminal record check for persons applying for citizenship through marriage and naturalization, not for jure sanguinis citizenship, nor for reacquisition of citizenship.

Laurie wrote:Since there seems to be a lot of discussion around the criminal check, I'm copying the exact wording from the Citizenship page of the Italian Embassy in D.C... note that they mention tax forms as well...

There is only discussion because people who do not know what they are talking about are proffering advice and those with successful applications (sometimes more than one as they help relatives and friends) are disagreeing.

Whatever the exact wording from a website will do is give you the exact method of how to get citizenship from the author of the webpage at the moment it was first put up.... and that is all it will give you. Meeting requirements on a checklist guarantees nothing, in fact, referencing back to any list that you are complete will only get you further from your goal.

You have choices, follow what is a posted policy or follow what works. Very rarely will they be the same thing.

I thought you were in Italy right now? You should know this!
-JLG

Zagnut is correct - the information posted is NOT for applicants requesting jure sanguinis. The information from the embassy is for applicants applying for citizenship through marriage or for naturalization. There are no tax, criminal records requested for jure sanguinis. Jure sanguinis recognition and citizenship is a right recognizing that the applicant has been a citizen of Italy automatically since birth.

You all are making a bit of a tempest in a teapot here. The embassy (Ms. Provenzano) told me they were going to check my background out and write each and every place I lived. She asked me to fill out the information then and there, and told me it would take some time for her to do it, and she could not commit as to when she would be done. Did she use the specific words of "criminal check" -- I don't honestly recall exactly -- I may have inferred that after I asked her why they did it. What I can say with certainty is that they needed at the embassy all the places I have lived, which I provided, and which they will reach out to for more information. This practice is not universal -- I don't think other consulates do this (others can pile on with their own experience at consulate locations to say whether or not they were given the same feedback as to the process). Whether or not they are checking criminal background, or whether I renounced my citizenship, or whatever is frankly irrelevant. My point was that their checking this out will take time, and is a bit of a departure from what other Italian consular locations appear to do. I frankly don't care if they check my background in any shape or form, other than the fact that it will take some time, as Ms. Provenzano was quite explicit that this was the reason it would take a while and she could not commit to a date.

Zagnut et. al., you guys need to lighten up. Unless you have spoken to Ms. Provenzano and applied there directly, you have no business saying what she told me. As best as I can tell, there are not a lot of people who have applied through the embassy -- and I have. If you have, feel free to pile on with your feedback and provide additional insight based on what you have learned first hand. Feel free to speculate all you want -- but make clear what basis you are making your opinion known. Every location appears to have different standards and processes they follow and take different amounts of time to complete them. Accept that fact and recognize that this is part of the way glorious Italian bureaucracy operates. If you can't deal with it, you shouldn't be an Italian citizen -- you will be frustrated for life.

Accuracy of information posted on the board does matter. At least one poster has already been confused by the jumbling of naturalization requirements with jure sanguinis requirements:

Criminal check for citizenship by blood? I thought this was only for marriage...did she specifically they were checking this now? Or are you also applying with your wife?

As has been pointed out, they are checking with the consulates for areas you've lived to confirm you've not renounced Italian citizenship. Other consulates' application and declaration of living ascendent forms request a list of places of residency as well.

As for lecturing us about Italian bureaucracy, I've lived in Italy for a decade and a half. And much rumor and misinformation is spread here as well.

Hi Laurie,

I had a great experience with the Embassy. I submitted all the paperwork as outlined on myitaliancitizenship.com with Italian translations in May of 2008. I got my letter in December of 2008 from the Comune in Italy and a phone call from the Embassy in Washingon verifying that I was registered in A.I.R.E and could now get my Italian passport. Let me know if you have any questions at cmachion@yahoo.com

I know this thread is a bit old, but since these pages live forever and can easily be found via google, I just wanted to add a reply with the latest info for anyone else applying via the Embassy in DC who has these same questions. My experience was similar but slightly different from the original post. Ms. Provenzano is still the person you will deal with. I have found her fairly easy to work with. She only requested the documents for the direct Italian line. I did not need notarization for the naturalization documents from USCIS, and I only needed a translation for my own birth cert (not for my mother's or grandfather's, nor any of the marriage or death certs; maybe this is new, but that was the only document she asked for a translation for). From what I understood, the only "background" checking they did was to check with the consulates in all the places I've lived to ensure I never denounced my citizenship. (As others stated in the thread, it's highly unlikely they would do (or even could do without our explicit consent, since they are a foreign gov't to the US) a criminal background investigation. Under Italian law, a criminal background is not a reason to lose citizenship--otherwise, there'd be only "foreigners" or stateless people in their jails. One thing that people need to keep in mind is that, under jure sanguinis, we're simply getting *recognition* of our Italian citizenship, which we've had from birth, we're not "gaining" citizenship, as someone would via marriage or naturalization, so a criminal check would have no bearing and be a big waste of time on their part; plus I assume we'd have to fill out a US form and submit that to our own government requesting an investigation, since Italy can't on their own investigate citizens of another country). In any case, one of the biggest barriers is that Ms. Provenzano will tell you that your parent (if living) needs to be recognized first, and that you should come back once that is completed. This has thwarted quite a few people and pushed their recognition back for years. There is explicit law stating that that is *not* necessary, so I was ready with an affidavit from my mother, notarized, stating she had no intention of or desire to gain recognition as an Italian citizen (though, ironically, it's my understanding that when my recognition is finalized, she will automatically be registered as well, regardless). This seemed to satisfy her, and she went ahead and started going through my paperwork. I did have one issue--I only had a baptismal certificate for my grandfather, as it turned out that he had somehow never, ever had an official US birth cert (how, I don't know, since he was in the army, worked, was on disability, retired, and got social security over the years). I basically had to have a Delayed Certificate of Birth created for him, which involved lawyers, a court order, and the vital records department of his home state. (If anyone needs advice on that, let me know, and I can guide you through the generic process, saving you a few grand...of course the details vary from state to state). I originally applied in August of 2010 and she said it would take 6-7 months before they even processed the docs. I was surprised to get a call in November 2010 (just 3 months later) from Ms. Provenzano saying that everything was in order but I needed the birth cert. I told her it was in the works, and had it in to her the first week of Jan. 2011. I've been following up every few weeks with an email asking about the status, and just two weeks ago, she replied that she would be sending the documents to my GGF's comune in a few weeks. So it seems to be moving along.

My only question is now, what is the actual next step. I have read so many different things on different boards. Sometimes people seem to be able to apply for a passport as soon as the documents are sent, sometimes told to wait 2 months, sometimes they are supposed to wait to hear from the comune, sometimes they hear back from the embassy/consulate, and sometimes they never hear anything until they start to get letters about voting. My plan is to continue asking for status updates every few weeks.

I will definitely be posting here and to other boards once mine is finalized!

Good luck, everyone!

It really only applies to citizenship through marriage, and the applicant pays the fee, not the consulate.

My son applied at the Embassy in DC after his parent was recognized. 9.5 months later he received his letter.

If you check with the passport department on the DC web site you will see what the current requirements are for obtaining a paasport. You would need your US passport, two photos, and the completed passport application. Of course the passport ofice may have other requirements once you show up. The web site may be out of date, and sso forth. The only other requirement for a passport I have heard of was to obtain a copy of the passport from the commune, but only some consulates have that requirement.