Multiple Citizenships

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Multiple Citizenships

Postby bluegravity82 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:47 pm

I am a little confused about multiple citizenships. I was born in Argentina and now I live in the US. I have the Argentinian (born) and US Citizenship (Naturalized). Now, my grandfather was born in Italy and I do want to apply for the Italian Citizenship as well. Am I going to lose my Argentininan or American Citizenship? Two friends of mine have the three citizenship (Argentinian, American and Italian) but, I do not know if this is actually true...
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Postby Em » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:17 am

It is indeed possible to have three citizenships, but when did you naturalize in the U.S.?

If before 1992, you lost your right to Italian citizenship jure sanguinis, because naturalization before that date was considered a renunciation of Italian citizenship by the Italian government.

If you naturalized after 1992, you are still eligible.
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good news then! Military Service?

Postby bluegravity82 » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:40 am

I was naturalized last year so it is good news!!! What about the military? Do you think is going to be a problem?
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Postby jcallori » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:52 am

As of 1 January 2007 compulsory military service will no longer be in effect, so nothing to worry about!
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Postby Tiffany » Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:42 pm

As the posters above have clarified, you have nothing to worry about. As long as all the countries in question permit multiple citizenship, you can have multiple citizenships. The US, in this case, does not expressly permit or deny it, so you can have it. The only sticky situations you may encounter in the US that could cause you to have your citizenship called into question are usually situations where you need security clearance.
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Postby noni181 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:59 pm

but isn't it true that if one is a NATURALIZED US CITIZEN and choses (not by legal imposition) to become a naturalized citizen of other country you'll lose your U.S. Citizenship? Something to this extent is printed in the U.S. PASSPORT and I read in other sites as one of the seven grounds for losing U.S. citizenship.
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Postby jcallori » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:05 pm

I do agree a naturalized U.S. citizen should be cautious when considering naturalizing in another country - it could very well mean forfeiting U.S. citizenship. Citizenship jure sanguinis (by blood), however, is not a form of naturalization. It is simply the formal recognition of a citizenship someone has had since birth.
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Postby Tiffany » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:02 pm

noni181,
That law has been repealed in the US.

Read ****://ap.grolier.com/article?assetid=0095130-00&templatename=/article/article.html]here[/url]:
Naturalized citizens legally are equal in almost all respects to persons who have been Americans from birth. The only constitutional disqualification of naturalized citizens is for the offices of president and vice president of the United States. However, naturalized citizens have been subject to loss of citizenship on grounds not applicable to the native-born.

Naturalized citizens who subsequently were believed to have been members of allegedly subversive organizations were, during the 1940s and 1950s, often charged with falsifying their original applications for citizenship; in these cases they were subjected to possible revocation of citizenship and deportation. American law also provided for denaturalization of naturalized citizens who took up permanent residence abroad within five years after naturalization. The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (the McCarran-Walter Act) also provided for the loss of U.S. citizenship of any naturalized citizen who later resided abroad for five years or for three years in the country of his or her birth or previous nationality. The purpose of these provisions, which were abandoned in 1990, was to deny U.S. citizenship to aliens who did not transfer their permanent allegiance to the United States in good faith. Federal courts and legislators, however, came to view the laws as unreasonable encroachments on the constitutional rights of citizens.


jcallori is also perfectly correct when he says that citizenship jure sanguinis is not considered a from of naturalization.
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Postby noni181 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:31 pm

What if a naturalized United States citizen is living in the US and is married to a foreigner that just acquired Italian citizenship jure sanguinis, then they wait for 3 years because they both reside in the US, and the naturalized USC becomes also an Italian Citizenship, with this event affect US Citizenship? Can you provide me with the actual law or cite that changed the law in 1990 in regards to the text you cited Tiffany? Lastly, can you reply to my other post?
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Postby Tiffany » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:13 am

There is no law that states that a naturalized citizen cannot lose citizenship by residing abroad after naturalization. The point is the absence of any law stating that it can be lost that way.

If you'd like to read more about how US citizenship can be lost, read ****://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html#LossCit]US law relating to dual citizenship[/url].

Selected excerpts:

On 10 October 1978, President Carter signed Public Law 95-432 (92 Stat. 1046; 1978 U.S. Code Congressional and Administrative News 2521). This bill repealed several provisions which had previously allowed revocation of US citizenship.

Some of the provisions abolished by Pub.L. 95-432 had already been rendered unenforceable by the Supreme Court. For example, the bill repealed provisions revoking citizenship for voting in foreign elections (Afroyim v. Rusk), moving abroad following naturalization (Schneider v. Rusk), and desertion from the armed forced during wartime (Trop v. Dulles) were all repealed.


Prior to Pub.L. 99-653, a naturalized citizen who moved away from the US and set up permanent residence abroad within five years following naturalization risked revocation of his citizenship -- on the grounds that his promise (made on the citizenship application) to reside permanently in the US after naturalization had been made in bad faith. This five-year period was reduced to one year. (In 1994, this provision was repealed altogether.)


1994 citizenship law amendments (Pub.L. 103-416)

On 25 October 1994, President Clinton signed Public Law 103-416 (108 Stat. 4305), the "Immigration and Nationality Technical Corrections Act of 1994". This bill made several notable changes to the laws pertaining to naturalization.

* Previously, candidates for US citizenship were required to state that they intended to reside permanently in the US following naturalization. This requirement was repealed by Congress.

* The law had previously stated that a newly naturalized US citizen who, within one year following his naturalization, abandoned his US residence and set up a permanent residence outside the US (whether in his country of origin, or in any other country) was presumed to have misrepresented his intentions regarding permanent residence on his citizenship application (though this presumption could be overcome by appropriate evidence to the contrary), and on this basis could have his US citizenship cancelled retroactively. This provision was also repealed.


It should be noted that this page says citizenship may be lost by voluntarily acquiring another citizenship after the age of 18, but stipulates that "that loss of citizenship can only result when the person in question intended to give up his citizenship".

I have read of several dual nationals who are US citizens and voluntarily acquired another citizenship (usually through marriage). None of them have been **** of American citizenship as far as I know because none of them intended to give up their citizenship.

Point: A US citizen, whether naturalized or native-born, are treated on equal footing regarding the loss of citizenship. Naturalized vs native-born should not matter.

You seem to have special interest in this subject. May I ask why?
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Postby noni181 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:26 am

Tiffany,

Thank you again for your kind a detailed reply. I did my own reaseach last night and I came to the same conclusion (there is a great deal of information in wikipedia) a naturalized USC citizen does not lose his US citizenship by becoming a naturalized citizen of a foreign state UNLESS the US citizen intends to renounce his US citizenship but the US Department of State takes the presumption the US citizenship did not intend to give up US citizenship even though it carried out one of those acts that would give ground for loss of US citizenship.

I am interested in this particular subject, because I am Uruguayan by birth, became a naturalized US citizen this year, and it is actually my wife who is Brazilian, and has her grandmother with grandfathers of italian descent. My wife and I are both very intersted in obtaining Italian citizenship for several purposes, relevant at this time is that my mother-in-law was denied a B-2 visa to come visit us here in the US despite the fact that my wife is a green card holder and I am US citizen, and we know if if she gets an Italian passport she will not need to re-apply for a B-2 visa and can use her Italian passport to come to the US.

As you might already know, Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay had a lot of Italian immigration and our culture was formed based on Italian and Spanish customs. In Uruguay the Italian-descent population is so big that the Government made it mandatory for public highschools to teach the last two years of high school Italian.

My mother was never able to confirm our Italian descent because Eiraldi (my mother's last name) could not be ascerted if they were Italians or Vasque and my mom's ancestors had come to Uruguay many many years ago and we never pursue it. Now that I am married to my wife, and we learned that she might be able to get Italian citizenship through her grandmother I was very excited but a little bit worried with its impact in my US citizenship.

Lastly, I have particular interest in law, because I am law student, and I pretend to practice one day immigration/nationality law, and I am very interested in how this area of law comes together.
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Postby Tiffany » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:32 pm

Both my husband and I are native-born citizens (USA for me, Italy for him). We plan the exact scenario you gave, both of us will naturalize after three years of marriage (me as Italian and him as American). To add on to that, we plan to live abroad in the future, perhaps soon after naturalization, perhaps in Canada (where I am also a citizen) though we are still debating. Neither of us expect to lose any of our citizenships!

It's a good you asked me those questions and forced me to verify my answer. I knew he could not lose his newly-minted American citizenship if we moved abroad, but I had not read the history of it and did not realize it had only been repealed altogether so recently (1990).

I see no problem for you or your wife regarding any loss of citizenship. All the countries involved, Uruguay, Brazil, Italy and America, all allow multiple citizenship. Remember when your wife is recognized as a citizen, she should inform the Brazilian consulate (I know a bit about this as my husband also has family in Brazil). I'm not sure about you though.
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Postby noni181 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:55 pm

We also plan to live abroad in the future (15-25 years from now) we would like to have to opoprtunity to alternate addresses between the US, Brazil (I plan to get that Brazilian citizenship too, but I have to live In Brazil for a year to be eligible for it), Europe and my native Uruguay.

Are you naturalized Canadian? Did your husband get his green card yet? Will my wife have be required to notify the Brazilian consulate once she acquires Italian citizenship or when she gets US citizenship or either one?

I was never required to inform the Uruguayan consulate about my U.S. citizenship but I never even research into such a duty.

I will post another message here either tonight or tomorrow once we get the info from the grandma. Will the certificates of citizenship of grandma and mother-in-law be issued at the same time my wife's will by the Italian consulate in New York?
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Postby Tiffany » Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:56 am

noni181 wrote:We also plan to live abroad in the future (15-25 years from now) we would like to have to opoprtunity to alternate addresses between the US, Brazil (I plan to get that Brazilian citizenship too, but I have to live In Brazil for a year to be eligible for it), Europe and my native Uruguay.

Are you naturalized Canadian? Did your husband get his green card yet? Will my wife have be required to notify the Brazilian consulate once she acquires Italian citizenship or when she gets US citizenship or either one?

I was never required to inform the Uruguayan consulate about my U.S. citizenship but I never even research into such a duty.

I will post another message here either tonight or tomorrow once we get the info from the grandma. Will the certificates of citizenship of grandma and mother-in-law be issued at the same time my wife's will by the Italian consulate in New York?


I was born a Canadian citizen in the US. My mother is a American citizen and my father is a Canadian citizen. My husband does have his greencard for the US, but not Canada. Since we are not sure we will relocate there, we haven't applied yet, but we can at any time.

I'm pretty sure your wife is supposed to notify the Brazilian consulate if she acquires additional citizenships besides Brazilian. Is it enforced? Good question! This was true also for Italians till a few years ago when they repealed this law about notifying the consulate of new citizenships. I am not sure about Uruguay.

I don't think your wife's mother or grandmother will receive certificates of citizenship, but as I detailed in the other thread, in theory they should be registered Italian citizens as the documents that prove their Italian citizenship will be registered at the comune in Italy. There have been hitches experienced by others though, and consulates have required the ascendants of those already recognized to make separate applications. I bet though if your wife's mother or grandmother went to Italy after the documents were registered, they would be able to apply for their passports. See the other thread for more info on this.
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Re: Multiple Citizenships

Postby MX5Brit » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:53 am

bluegravity82 wrote:I am a little confused about multiple citizenships. I was born in Argentina and now I live in the US. I have the Argentinian (born) and US Citizenship (Naturalized). Now, my grandfather was born in Italy and I do want to apply for the Italian Citizenship as well. Am I going to lose my Argentininan or American Citizenship? Two friends of mine have the three citizenship (Argentinian, American and Italian) but, I do not know if this is actually true...


I have a similar sitiuation:

Native-born in Argentina
Italian per Ius Sanguinis (grandfather and mother)
Naturalised British Citizen

There is a dual-citizenship agreement between Italy and Argentina, but not with the UK, but still I am allowed to enter and leave Argentina on my British Passport (90 days max stay).

UK law does not require to relinquish any citizehnship you may hold to become a British Citizen. And according to what I read here, I would not have lost my Italian Citizenship on becoming a Brit. :wink:
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