Italian citizenship for everyone?

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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby zagnut » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:38 am

I'll stop disputing your anti-Muslim hatred the moment you stop espousing it on this message board. Not a moment sooner.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby Carl » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:45 am

After the great contributions the muslim world made to my city of New York how can you feel that I wouldn't want to be around more of you?
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby zagnut » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:48 am

Understood- you hate Muslims in Italy because you hate Muslims in New York.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby Carl » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:53 am

I'm sure that's as much as you will ever be able to get your mind around.

Tell me. What muslim country would allow HUGE populations of Western Catholics to move in and live comfortably?
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby Em » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:54 am

Maybe we should consider that new cultures can enrich a country. The huge influx of Italians to the U.S. was not welcomed by most Americans, but Italians have contributed much to this country. Some people argue that Italians brought organized crime with them, and I can only point out that it is not right to judge all Italians by the actions of a few. I think it only fair that we extend the same courtesy to Muslims.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby Em » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:58 am

I think it's true that many Muslim nations would not allow the huge emigration of non-Muslims; but those are countries in which one would prefer not to live. Maybe it's not Muslims that are the problem but the restrictive and narrow-minded thinking that makes living in such nations so untenable. It's not something we should emulate.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby Carl » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:07 pm

We should do (in THIS country) what we always did until recently. Allow legal immigrants (like MY father) into the country in numbers and from areas selected to maintain the culture and ethnic balance of our country. We should also be sure that those who come have some visible means of support when they get here and that they are healthy when they arrive so as not to immediately become a burden upon our health care system and MY tax dollars. I already have kids. I don't need floods of needy illegals.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby zagnut » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:30 pm

"After the great contributions the muslim world made to my city of New York how can you feel that I wouldn't want to be around more of you?"
You are correct- all one billion Muslims and all their progeny forever are guilty for the acts of an extremist minority. We know this is just and correct by the same airtight reasoning holding the last 100 generations of Jews culpable for the crucifixion.

The concept of individual responsibility is invalid- entire populations are responsible for the actions of any of their members.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby Carl » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:38 pm

You know, I'm really not in the mood to argue and it's pointless arguing with the like of you anyway because you have no argument to give back but look at it this way. If you knew a certain group produced mass murderers of innocents and you were invited to a party at which 30 others were going to be present but you knew one or two were the same as the mass murderers, how many of the group would you want to be around?

Think about NYC, Paris, Amsterdam, Lockerby, Glasgow, London, etc. Is NOTHING ringing any bells? Helllllooooo......

Look within yourself.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby arist » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:53 pm

sad.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby Carl » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:56 pm

Tell me about it!
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby zagnut » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:53 am

Yes, it is sad that an educated man in the 21st century agrees with this medieval thinking:
"All one billion Muslims and all their progeny forever are guilty for the acts of an extremist minority. We know this is just and correct by the same airtight reasoning holding the last 100 generations of Jews culpable for the crucifixion.
The concept of individual responsibility is invalid- entire populations are responsible for the actions of any of their members."

Particularly sad, given that the man claims to have been an anthropologist, yet believes:
"What I learned was that where my parents came from is exactly where my genetic lines came from for a couple of thousand years."
"They say there's Arab, African, etc. in Sicilian bloodlines? Well, not in mine."

Unfortunately education is no guarantee of enlightenment. We have the example of William Shockley, who won the Nobel prize for physics, yet advocated eugenics. And the Nazi engineers and managers who designed and operated the death camps were brilliant. It truly is sad that knowledge can be used for bad as well as good.
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby tonyric » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:29 am

zagnut, well, if we do look over the past dozen hundreds of years or so, the Sicilian blood is a mix of European, Arab, African and others. To think we, with Siciian blood are "pure" is ridiculous.

BTW, Carl, I am absolutely horrified that a member of a forum that I use, which is also a citizen of a country I defended can spit out such hatred towards someone they do not know. I do not know zagnut, but I do know that in the past he has had answers for questions that I have. Not once has he been anything but courteous to me and others. But, you come on to these board and start talking about hatred to approximately 1/4 of the worlds population because of the acts of a few thousand..... Next thing we will hear is that you hate all east Asians because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. They all look alike (they don't but stay with me) they all talk alike because you may not be able to understand them, so they must all be like those that we fought in WWII......

Carl, get off your horse, keep the racial hatred to yourself.... BTW, I have friends that died in NYC and the Pentagon on that fateful day, but I have come to terms and peace with it. I think you need to as well.

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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby zagnut » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:45 am

"zagnut, well, if we do look over the past dozen hundreds of years or so, the Sicilian blood is a mix of European, Arab, African and others. To think we, with Siciian blood are "pure" is ridiculous."
Exactly what I was pointing out. Anyone boasting about his Sicilian ethnic purity is clueless. My wife's grandparents are all from Bisacquino and Valguarnera Caropepe, but their ancestry is a mixture of Greek, North African, Arab with maybe even a little Norman and Spanish and Italian thrown in .
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Re: Italian citizenship for everyone?

Postby Em » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:20 am

There are a lot of people in mainland Italy who refuse to believe that Sicilians are Italian. Lega Nord doubts that anyone born south of the Mason-Dixon (Roma) line is Italian. And the truth is that Italy is a mix of ethnicities, races, and cultures, which have come together as a nation in a beautiful part of the world, with a beautiful language, and great food and wine. The various regional dialects and cuisine are two indications of Italy's lack of homogeneity. There is so much to see and enjoy in Italy, from the Dolomites in the north to the beautiful Amalfi coast to Sicily's rocky terrain, but each part of Italy and the people living there evolved in a different way, and this is not a bad thing.
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