re: religious freedom banned in US?

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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:45 pm

Angiolo, do you mean "precepe"? I have heard of a sort of "dialect" spoken of the Christmas "precepo" (as pronounced by some). Is this where you get Precibo? I heard Precipo, but maybe some pronounce it precibo, just as some do with "fazool" instead of "fajioli" ?
I think I understand you to talk about Christmas time, where they carry all kinds of statues, Maddonas, etc, thru the streets, and the streets are closed, as in Roma, but almost all Italian cities have this
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:48 pm

I was copying Angiolo`s word, as my understanding of what he means is a religious parade of some sort, but I didn`t know what it was called.


Angiolo, the story of the boy really brings tears to my eyes, thinking here is someone who really wants to do his best, and obviously, his mother is a good mother, since he made honor roll so many times already. very sad. I was not aware of the obstacles to an education, but I guess the rules are different in certain areas.
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Postby Em » Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:59 pm

Angiolo, that was an interesting story. A while back Gabrielle asked Muddoni to "document his source," and I would appreciate it if you did the same.

It's not unusual for school districts to require physicals and innoculations (that's for the benefit of the other students), but accommodations are made for families who have no private physician. It is my understanding that it is illegal for a public school to require the purchase of specific items as a condition of attendence, so what you write sounds rather strange.

It may be that things are done differently in Chicago, and as a teacher in a public school, I certainly would be interested in learning more about this. I'd certainly appreciate it if you would reference your source.

BTW, doesn't this belong on another thread? I thought we were talking about religious freedom. :?
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Postby Maria » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:39 pm

Em,
The link below will take you to a days old thread where the subject brought up here by Angiolo about Illinois' education crisis was being discussed. There are a couple of links included in the messages that will shed light on the situation and will explain the student's requirements set-up by the state of Illiniois.

Don't be misled by the title of the thread on that forum since, like this one, the subject took many twists and turns.

http://virtualitalia.com/forums/viewtop ... c&start=15

M.
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:14 pm

Maria, your link gives a similiar article by a Carlo, and are you suggesting that Carlo and Angiolo are the same person? It could be also, that since they are from the same city, that they both know of what is going on

But, it doesn`t matter the source. what matters is, what is being said, and what is happening, and whether it is true or not.
I have an aunt in Chicago, who is up in years and may not know what is happening, but I will ask her anyway. maybe she heard about this.

Em, you appear to want to deny what Angiolo says is true, but I cannot immagine Angiolo making up a story, or the other guy.
I don`t know whether it is true either, but I am certainly not naive to think it can`t or won`t happen. I won`t close my eyes. I will check further, and I won`t call any of these guys a liar without proof
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Postby Em » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:27 pm

Many thanks Maria. Some of the posters provided links to explain their positions.

I may have misread some of the posts (and, of course, one can never be certain that a poster is reliable), but I got the impression that although a physical exam is required in the State of Illinois, provisions are made for those who cannot afford one. One of the problems in an inner city school system is that many who are eligible for such programs are unaware of them because of language issues, their own lack of education, and of course, those who are in this country illegally may fear discovery.

The part about the school uniforms is interesting, because it's one that my own colleagues occasionally discuss. Children generally come to school wearing clothes (at least I hope so :D ), and even those students who are from financially disadvantaged families seem to find a way to buy the latest style clothes, the most expensive sneakers, etc. Kids want to "fit in" and if they are wearing the "wrong" clothes, they feel as if they don't belong. A uniform removes a lot of that social pressure, and in the long run saves parents money since they don't have to repeatedly fund a new wardrobe. There should, of course, be a way of funding a "start-up" wardrobe for those who can't afford it.

From a teacher's standpoint I like the idea of a uniform or a strict dress code. I don't enjoy seeing cleavage, belly button rings and tatoos in places that should remain private. :( I'd love a uniform for teachers as well. It would actually save me money and a big decision I have to make every morning.

Lele, I would never accuse anyone on this forum of lying. That would be an unfair assumption to make. Several weeks ago, one of our posters quoted from an article that Angiolo and I disputed. He even offered a translation. When we were directed to the actual article, however, it did not say exactly what the poster claimed it said. I don't think the poster deliberately intended to deceive, but everything in writing is subject to interpretation, and it's important always to "go to the source." If you've ever played the game of "telephone" in school, you know what I mean.

Now I too have meandered from the original topic. So let me say again that freedom of religion is alive and well in the U.S.--that is, freedom for EVERY religion, not just one.
Last edited by Em on Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Maria » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:31 pm

Lele wrote:Maria, your link gives a similiar article by a Carlo, and are you suggesting that Carlo and Angiolo are the same person?


I'm not suggesting anything. I just posted a link to a thread with a similar topic with some interesting commentaries.

Lele wrote:Em, you appear to want to deny what Angiolo says is true, but I cannot immagine Angiolo making up a story, or the other guy.


If you read the same message I read by Em, no one is calling anyone a liar. Asking for a link with a reference to the situation in Chicago is not putting in doubt what Angiolo said.
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:32 pm

Gabrielle, I spelled it wrong. I wrote it, as it is pronounced in Italy. But, the important thing is that at least you understand what i said

Lele, You also seemed to know what I said, even not knowing the language.

As for this 'link', I have never been on the website, and so, don`t know who this is, but his words are almost identical to mine. I guess to Maria we are the same person, but we are not.

The only websites I was on, are this one, "Italylink" and another one which is only written in Italian. However, you are correct in saying that Em appears to be finding a way to refute what i say, since she would be too embarrased to learn, as a professed educator, that children`s rights are being denied in such a 'free' country.
However, the story is true and is easily verified. check the net.

I am tired of these Americans lying in an effort to make the US look good, even when evidence is produced to the contrary.
Now I understand why so many people tell me they want to leave the US. They are just as tired of seeing freedoms taken away
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Postby Maria » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:39 pm

Em wrote:
From a teacher's standpoint I like the idea of a uniform or a strict dress code. I don't enjoy seeing cleavage, belly button rings and tatoos in places that should remain private. :( I'd love a uniform for teachers as well. It would actually save me money and a big decision I have to make every morning.

So now I too have meandered from the original topic. So let me say again that freedom of religion is alive and well in the U.S.--that is, freedom for EVERY religion, not just one.


Em,
I agree with you on both points.

I don't have school-age kids anymore but back then I wished and hoped and prayed for a school uniform. Now that they are all grown-up, I see elementary school children in my city wearing uniforms. An adult version of the student's uniform would be a great idea for a teacher's uniform. 8)

And I see freedom of religion every day of my life. Never saw anyone being denied the right to pray and celebrate their faith.

M.
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Postby Em » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:41 pm

Angiolo, I simply asked for your source. Why are you so reluctant to provide it?
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Postby Maria » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:45 pm

Angiolo wrote:As for this 'link', I have never been on the website, and so, don`t know who this is, but his words are almost identical to mine. I guess to Maria we are the same person, but we are not.


I never said anything to that effect nor did I imply such thing. Why the need to be in the defensive and assuming so much?
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:47 pm

Angiolo, I don`t care about the link, as I am not a member of that forum either.
I find your story interesting, and I can only say (honestly), that it apears true. Don`t get offended though, that I ask my aunt if she knows what is going on.
I have no reason to dispute what you are saying, but one thing WOULD anger me about your story, and that is the bureacracy involved with children.
In the case you mentioned, here is a child ( former honor student), which even Em seems to put down in some way, by implying that his mother is uneducated, or doesn`t understand the system, etc. However, YOU were there with her, and heard the entire conversation.
Em also implyed that many children are being bought expensive clothes, like designer jeans, etc, and not buying uniforms.
Em seemed to really put this woman down, and I don`t know why.
This seems like a very good mother, who cares for her child so much. Besides, she would have to be doing something right, if her child made the honor roll 4 years straight.
I don`t care. This story angers me, because as you said, this child will not make the honor roll through no fault of his own, or the parents, and also deneied the right to an education.
I am not there, and so, I don`t know all the rules. I do understand about the physical and uniforms, but you even said she obtained the physical for her child but was still denied for several other reasons.

What angers me most is, here we adults are debating issued pertaining to the children, and here we are making the decisions, and this child suffers.
And not only this child, but thousands??? Sorry, I am angry. There is no excuse for this!! and to penalize a child for bureacracy. Discusting even more, is when people make excuses for this, and implying the parents are at fault, when clearly in this case, she wasn`t
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Postby Em » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:47 pm

Maria wrote:
Em wrote:An adult version of the student's uniform would be a great idea for a teacher's uniform. 8)
M.


And if I were dressed like the students, maybe I'd start to feel young, too. :D

Thanks so much Maria. I was beginning to think I was the only one who felt this way. :(

My children are grown too; uniforms would have saved me soooo much money.

Em

P.S. You are new to this forum, and I apologize. We haven't always been this contentious. Lele and Angiolo seem determined to misinterpret. Not much we can do about that. Notice, however, how adept they are at changing the subject to avoid a response.
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:56 pm

amazing. even when people give their personal experiences pertaining to individual rights and freedoms, his "source" is called into question. Since when are personal experiences put on a public website or the internet?
I see this as calling Angiolo a liar.
And people like Em making fun of this woman and child, as if they are some sort of illegal aliens, even when Angiolo said they were US citizens.
How disgraceful for even a so called educator to "cover up" and condone what is happening to the children in this country.
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Postby Em » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:57 pm

Can you people read? Actually, maybe you've all proved your point. The educational system in this country must be horrendous if it can produce people who can read a statement and so totally misinterpret its meaning.

OK, Gabrielle, let's assume Angiolo's personal experience is exactly as stated. What about the other 299???

And just to clarify since you obviously don't get it. I was not speaking about Angiolo's friend (whose original language is not English), but about the prevailing problem.

Quite frankly, I don't know why I bother.

Guess you guys don't want to talk about religion any more.
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