re: religious freedom banned in US?

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Postby Maria » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:09 pm

Em,
No need to apologize. For a number of years I've been a member of many message boards dealing with all things Italian and I've seen this behavior many times. Putting down the USA to exalt Italy is a common topic. It's a syndrome that's begging for a name.
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Postby Em » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:16 pm

Thanks so much for putting it into perspective Maria. You've brought my blood pressure down at least 30 points. :D

Ciao, Em
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:17 pm

Americans have already lost practically ALL freedoms and rights. I suspected that the educational system produced such 'braindead' students as is shown on here, but didn`t relaize the extent of this "epidemic".
I didn`t know about the denial of an education to students, but it does not surprise me either. This country will always seek ways to **** people of their rights and freedoms. Frankly, I have had enough, and want to be around decent people, and is why I chose to live in Italy, around the 'real' Italians, with morals and values, and not these anti-Italy, and pro American degenerates
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Postby Em » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:23 pm

Ciao! Arrivaderci! Goodbye! AuRevoir! Ta Ta! etc. etc.

Hope it happens for you soon. :lol:
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:28 pm

Angiolo, is the Italian forum you speak of only in Italian? or is there some English? I don`t know enough to write a good sentence, without maybe being laughed at.

I am new on here, and all I see is arguments. All I ever wanted was some information about living in Italy, but I guess I won`t find it here
Anonymous
 

Postby Em » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:38 pm

Sorry, your question was addressed to Angiolo.
Last edited by Em on Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:39 pm

Lele, sorry, you have to be subjected to this being new on here. I will try and answer any questions you may have. I have not spent as much time in Italy as Gabrielle. did you read any of his stories yet? they really seem to depict Italian life.

As you can see, even the misfortunes of a small child is laughed at, and not condemned. As for the Italian website, there is little English, but hey, didn`t you say you wanted to live in Italy? why not start with the forum? I can help you with it (when I am on), and I know Gabrielle can, (but he is not on there that much). I sent you the link anyway.
Anonymous
 

Postby Maria » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:46 pm

Em,

Think of the recent exchange in this thread as a commedia or an opera buffa. I've seen it before, I know the script, I know the characters.

A dir la verita', e' una tragicommedia! :D :cry:

buonanotte,
Maria
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Postby Anonymous » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:49 pm

Thanks for the link. I looked it over. I see a Gabrielle is on there, but not sure it is the same person. I did read part of his stories, and it does seem fascinating. I`ll read the rest later. Hope he has more to say, but maybe he is upset.
I do not see Gabrielle as the one who started this 'spat', but as someone who defended Italy, and I see nothing wrong with that. I just don`t want to see arguments, as I came on here for information. However, I do have the impression that it is a pro American sight, rather than one that is pro Italy. I see a bit too much of putting Italy down, and that is what got Gabrielle angry. At least that is the way I see it.
See ya on the other forum, if you go there. I will try it
Anonymous
 

Postby ejd » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:04 am

Angiolo wrote:
I am tired of these Americans lying in an effort to make the US look good, even when evidence is produced to the contrary.


Angiolo, who in THIS thread has done this? I must have missed something...
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Postby ejd » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:15 am

GabrielleAM wrote:Americans have already lost practically ALL freedoms and rights. I suspected that the educational system produced such 'braindead' students as is shown on here, but didn`t relaize the extent of this "epidemic".


Braindead students as shown here? This comment is totally uncalled for. The bigger problem here is when some people have to resort to petty insults. Let's please keep this civil. Thank you.
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Postby ejd » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:19 am

Angiolo wrote:As you can see, even the misfortunes of a small child is laughed at, and not condemned.


Where in this thread did this occur? Again, I must have missed something because it didn't look to me like anyone was laughing at this.

As for the Italian website, there is little English, but hey, didn`t you say you wanted to live in Italy? why not start with the forum? I can help you with it (when I am on), and I know Gabrielle can, (but he is not on there that much). I sent you the link anyway.


My Italian is not very good yet, but this forum might help me learn once I start seeing my tutor again this winter. Any chance you could provide the link? I don't see it anywhere this thread.
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Postby Anonymous » Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:54 am

I was in Italy recently in a small village. I could not stay like I wanted to, and cryed along with my family when I had to leave. As for religion, all I can say is, it is different in Italy. I had the pleasure of the comune`s patron saint holiday, and to join in the festivities. I literally cryed because my first thoughts were how wonderful an experience. Like most Italians in Italy, I am Catholic, and appreciate the festivals they have. As someone said, manger scenes, statues, etc, are not allowed in the US, at least not in public. They are of course allowed in someone`s own private yard. I also remember the public display in the US, but sadly, that is no longer, as i liked it.
The ONLY trouble I have with the banning of a public display is that the US has always been a Christian religion, and was proud to display mangers, etc. This has changed in more modern times to suit those who are not Christian. I don`t know WHO started the movement to ban things in public, but evidently their voice was heard.
However, there is something more to this, than simply banning a manger scene.
Many Americans argue that a manger scene (being a Christian symbol), infringes on the rights of those who are not Christian, like Muslim, Jewish, etc.
I am old enough to remember that NO Jewish organization has ever complained of Christmas trees and manger scenes in public places and set up at town halls. It was accepted, UNTIL NOW
Only in recent times, has people come forward looking to abolish the manger scenes, Christmas trees, etc. for the sake of those who are not of the Christian faith.
The result is that NO religious faith is allowed in the US, to appease those who complain. and I am not talking about IN Churches, Synagogues, or Mosque worship, but in public places
So, someone like Gabrielle, and perhaps Angiolo also, says that religious freedom has been **** in the US.
So now, the question arises as to should anyone have the right in government to abolish the public display of ALL religious symbols, regardless of what religion. Personally, I say NO!. Nobody has that right, yet it is done.
There is the feeling of many Americans, that their religious practices should not be changed, just to suit those who come into the country, and who is not of the Christian faith. Why should a religious practice be banned to suit the newcomers? For me, they should perhaps go to the country of choice, where they can practice their own religion, and not infringe on others.
This IS the case in Italy. Italians WILL continue to have their festivals, parades, Manger scenes, Christmas trees, crucifixes, and public school prayer, regardless WHO doesn`t like it. The government has even passed laws to restrict the use of these things, but Italians won`t stand for it. There are Muslims, etc, in Italy, who have been pressing to do away with the Catholic practices, but their voice will never be heard, as Italy will not change for anyone.
That is because it took Italians too long to become the free nation that they are, and they won`t even allow government to prevent their religious practices.
Then again, there is the Vatican, which is actually separate from Italy, and who has their own sovereignty. The Vatican has much to say on religious affairs in Italy, and so the government has refrained from pressing their own restrictive laws., recently passed.
So, today in Italy, Catholics continue practicing their religion (Catholic), and they could care less who likes or doesn`t like it, nor will they stop because of any laws passed by government, or to suit those, who don`t like it.
I will only suggest to people like Gabrielle, Angiolo, or anyone else, that if you like the way your Catholic religion is practiced in Italy, AND if it is of great imporatnce to you, then perhaps you would be best suited to live in Italy. For those who like the current American way, and don`t really care, then perhaps you are better suited to live in America.
For me personally, I like the Italy way of life, with all their religious rights to public display. It suits me. I don`t wish to do without it.
Italy will continue as it has for centuries, and nobody will ever change it, now or later, as Italians fought for their unification, and not the greatest government power will ever change Italy. Italians will not tolerate it, myself being one of them
Anonymous
 

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