We think we qualify and would like another opinion

Are you eligible for Italian Citizenship jure sanguinis?

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We think we qualify and would like another opinion

Postby cproto » Sat May 26, 2007 6:20 pm

My brother and I are interested in knowing if we qualify for dual citizenship. We have studied your web site and have realized our situation is somewhat unique.



Our mother's parents were born in Italy and were originally Italian citizens. They came to the US to work and then later returned to Italy. Our mother was born in San Francisco in 1908, so she was an American citizen at birth. At the time of her birth we don't know if our grandparents were American citizens or not.

In 1915 our grandparents retired to Sestri Levante, Italy. Our mother was seven years old when the family returned to Italy. In the late 1930s she married an Italian citizen and became an italian citizen herself. Her husband died in the war, and then after the war she came back to the US. We believe she had dual citizenship upon her return to the United States.She married our father in 1948 and my brother and I were born in 1949 & 1951.

Our father was born in Sicily in 1898, came to US in 1914, became a US citizen. We beleive his becoming an American citizen means he lost his Italian citizienship.


Since we believe our mother had dual citizenship we think we may qualify for Italian citizenship. If so we would also be interested in knowing if our children qualifying for dual
citizenship as well.

If we do qualify please let us know our next steps. Any advise in this matter is greatly appreciated.
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Postby Em » Sat May 26, 2007 9:01 pm

Yours is indeed an unusual situation, but it seems as though you qualify; and if you qualify, your children do as well.

The process, however, may be more complicated for you because you will need to trace citizenship patterns as they pertain to the citizenship laws at the time.

Some questions:

- Were your grandparents Italian when your mother was born in the U.S.? If yes, they passed Italian citizenship to her.
- If your mother only became an Italian citizen by marrying an Italian, did she lose her U.S. citizenship at that time? I tend to think that the answer to this is "no," and it would only become an issue if she then had to reacquire American citizenship through naturalization. That would constitute a renunciation of her Italian citizenship.

More likely, your mother was born American of Italian parents and thus had dual citizenship. When she returned to Italy, she acquired Italian citizenship through marriage (probably b/c Italy did not recognize jure sanguinis at the time). Back in the U.S. she had no need to naturalize because she possessed a U.S. birth certificate--thus, U.S. citizen. Seems to work.
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Postby Mentor » Sun May 27, 2007 3:52 am

.....Our mother's parents were born in Italy and were originally Italian citizens. They came to the US to work and then later returned to Italy. Our mother was born in San Francisco in 1908, so she was an American citizen at birth. At the time of her birth we don't know if our grandparents were American citizens or not......

The fact that your grand-parents came to the USA intending to work and returned to Italy as early as 1915, taking their daughter born in 1908 with them, would indicate that there is a very good chance they did not naturalize and your mother did inherit Italian citizenship from her parents. This means you also inherited Italian citizenship from your mother. Whatever else may have transpired, such as your mother marrying an Italian citizen, has no importance in your case. Furthermore, children born on American soil to Italian parents can NEVER lose their American citizenship by marriage to a foreigner no matter what year they were born.
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Postby Em » Wed May 30, 2007 11:09 am

[quote="Mentor] Furthermore, children born on American soil to Italian parents can NEVER lose their American citizenship by marriage to a foreigner no matter what year they were born.[/quote]

However, a female could lose American citizenship if she married a foreigner before 1922 (see Cable Act). This, of course, does not apply to your mom who married in 1930.

Since you were born after 1948, I, too, believe you are likely to qualify.
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Postby CJC » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:41 pm

Someday is confusing people again.

Women born before 1948 to an Italian father can pass their citizenship to their children born after January 1, 1948.

Since the people in question were born in 1949 and 1951, they are not subject to the 1948 rule unless their grandfather was not Italian at the time of their mothers birth.
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Postby Em » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:11 am

someday wrote:If you are confused think it through. WOMEN cannot pass citizenship
without a male link BEFORE 1948. Obvious to most people that can read English :roll: :roll: :shock: You are so correct 1949 would work BUT the mother followed must have a paternal link to pass. :roll:


Hi Someday,

You are correct, but CJC is also correct. You are, as you later point out, saying the same thing.

I think the problem is with the terminology you use. You repeatedly mention the phrase "paternal link." This is correct, but it's not a link that solely applies to women.

For example: An Italian man born in 1901 has two children--Giuseppe and Luisa born in 1921 and 1923. Both are Italian, but neither can pass on citizenship without a LINK through their Italian father. The real difference is WHEN such citizenship can be passed.

Giuseppe can pass on citizenship to his child at any time; Luisa, only after 1948. Both, however, require this PATERNAL link. Had their mother been the Italian citizen, neither Giuseppe NOR Luisa would be eligible because even a male requires a paternal link if he was born before 1948.

Thus, the mention of a PATERNAL link is not inaccurate; it is, however, confusing. Generally people discuss eligibility in terms of one generation at a time. (Greatgrandfather was Italian and did not renounce; passes citizenship to grandmother, who did not renounce; grandmother cannot pass citizenship to mother because mother was born in 1947.)

Note the example above. The grandmother did indeed have a paternal link, but still could not pass citizenship. Thus your statement: "WOMEN cannot pass citizenship without a male link BEFORE 1948" is inaccurate. The truth is that women cannot pass citizenship before 1948 even with a male link. That's why the term "paternal link" is confusing, and I think that this is all CJC was saying.

Best to speak in terms of 1) did the individual obtain citizenship through a parent, and 2) is that individual eligible to pass on such citizenship according to Italian law.

May I also request that you limit the use of eye rolls. It's condescending, and, in this case, particularly inapt.
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Postby Mentor » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:46 pm

The eye rolls don't bother me a bit. The emoticons are there for a reason. He is just stating his opinion. He's not a presidential candidate.
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Postby Em » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:19 pm

Repost--sorry.
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Postby Em » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:28 pm

Mentor wrote:The eye rolls don't bother me a bit. The emoticons are there for a reason. He is just stating his opinion. He's not a presidential candidate.


They certainly are! :D There, I've used one myself.

Someday has a right to state his opinion. To me, however, the post was condescending to another poster, and that did bother me. It was even less appropriate because CJC was correct and apparently can read English quite well.

Oh well, perhaps I'm being too sensitive, but there it is.
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Postby Tiffany » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:25 pm

I think it is easier to just keep this to the date of birth of the child. If the child was born before 1948, he/she needs an Italian father to inherit citizenship from. If he/she was born after 1948, then citizenship can be inherited from either parent. Follow this rule, and you will never be wrong.

Also keep in mind that citizenship never skips a generation. It is always passed from parent to child. So if you were born after 1948 to a mother with Italian citizenship, you inherit Italian citizenship directly from your mother. I'm not sure why this paternal link stuff has to come into it and frankly I think it's wrong to give such a skewed view of the inheritance of Italian citizenship. If someone really got citizenship from a grandparent, it would not matter what the parent did before the birth of the child as long as the grandparent was a citizen. However, it does matter what the parent does and if the parent naturalized before such an event, the fact that your grandfather remains an Italian citizen doesn't help any - the child is ineligible. To me this proves that citizenship is inherited from the parent (and nevermind that Italian law says just that too).
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