Passport Success

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Passport Success

Postby G.Marino » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:55 pm

I just picked up my passports from San Francisco yesterday, all went smooth and it only took 7 working days. I'm so excited. I have some questions though, I was told that when I go to Italy to visit next month to find a place to live I have to leave the US with my American passport and when I arrive in Italy I can use my Italian passport. Now on the way back can I enter the US with my Italian passport? When I leave for the last time can I leave the US with my Italian passport? I am aware that when I arrive in Italy with my Italian passport that if I get into trouble for whatever reason (have no plans on getting into trouble) that the US can do little to help me, I am not worried about that. I just don't understand why I can't just use my Italian passport from now on, can anyone explain this to me. Thank you in advance for any help in this matter.
And one more thing, I was told there is a yearly fee for the passports that I have to pay directly to the consulate, where do I pay the fee when I live in Italy since I will be living there when the fee becomes due? Thanks again. Giovanni
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Re: Passport Success

Postby penguindump » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:55 pm

Congrats on getting your passport :)
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Re: Passport Success

Postby lobezno » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:09 pm

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Re: Passport Success

Postby CJC » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:51 pm

As an American Citizen, you are REQUIRED to enter and leave the US with your American passport. Enter and leave the EU with your Italian passport.
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Re: Passport Success

Postby Esatto » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:34 am

CJC is correct unless you want to get stopped and have a lot of explaining.
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Re: Passport Success

Postby zagnut » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:40 am

I am aware that when I arrive in Italy with my Italian passport that if I get into trouble for whatever reason (have no plans on getting into trouble) that the US can do little to help me, I am not worried about that.

If you need help from the US consulate in Italy and have a US passport, they will help you. They have no way of knowing which passport you used to enter Italy- the entry stamp is so randomly applied at Italian airports that it's useless as a control.
where do I pay the fee when I live in Italy since I will be living there when the fee becomes due

You can buy the marca da bollo for your passport at any tobacco shop, news stand, etc
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Re: Passport Success

Postby CJC » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:02 am

Esatto wrote:CJC is correct unless you want to get stopped and have a lot of explaining.


I give up. :roll:
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Re: Passport Success

Postby Esatto » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:10 am

CJC wrote:
Esatto wrote:CJC is correct unless you want to get stopped and have a lot of explaining.


I give up. :roll:


Don't give-up I was agreeing with YOU!
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Re: Passport Success

Postby EU Ahoy » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:47 pm

The penalties for entering the US without a US passport seem to vary. I know one friend who was given a slap on the shoulder essentially and allowed to enter as a tourist, while another was barred from entering and had to fly back home. Anyone know what the actual legal penalty is? I'm very curious.
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Re: Passport Success

Postby zagnut » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:56 pm

It's required by 22CFR53.1
Under section 215(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8
U.S.C. 1185(b), it is unlawful except as otherwise provided for any
citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to
depart from or enter, the United States without a valid passport.


Violations must be reported under 22CFR53.3
The appropriate officer at the port of entry shall report to the
Secretary of State for the purpose of invoking the waiver provisions of
Sec. 53.2(h), any citizen of the United States who attempts to enter the
United States contrary to the provisions of this part.


If the waiver is authorized by Secretary of State there is no fee:
Passport waiver (22 CFR 53.2(h), Passport requirement and exceptions) No fee.
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Re: Passport Success

Postby penguindump » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:10 pm

zagnut wrote:It's required by 22CFR53.1
Under section 215(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8
U.S.C. 1185(b), it is unlawful except as otherwise provided for any
citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to
depart from or enter, the United States without a valid passport.


This should say without a valid United States passport - because a valid Italian passport is still a valid passport. Whenever I end up getting my Italian passport, I will always enter/depart the US with my US passport.. I'm just pointing out that they leave it a little grey with their wording.
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Re: Passport Success

Postby EU Ahoy » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:20 pm

penguindump wrote: I'm just pointing out that they leave it a little grey with their wording.


My point exactly. Obviously its still silly to try and enter a country with another passport under these circumstances...but the actual punishment seems to be left to interpretation on a case by case basis.
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Re: Passport Success

Postby zagnut » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:14 am

This should say without a valid United States passport - because a valid Italian passport is still a valid passport. Whenever I end up getting my Italian passport, I will always enter/depart the US with my US passport.. I'm just pointing out that they leave it a little grey with their wording.

It's United States law, not Italian law, and it's clear as a bell to me. If you think
it is unlawful except as otherwise provided for any
citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to
depart from or enter, the United States without a valid passport
is grey, try arguing the case in court.


the actual punishment seems to be left to interpretation on a case by case basis.

Not if you read the law. There is no "actual punishment." You simply can't enter the US without a US passport unless SOS waives the requirement, in which case no fee is charged.
The appropriate officer at the port of entry shall report to the
Secretary of State for the purpose of invoking the waiver provisions of
Sec. 53.2(h), any citizen of the United States who attempts to enter the
United States contrary to the provisions of this part.

Passport waiver (22 CFR 53.2(h), Passport requirement and exceptions) No fee.
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Re: Passport Success

Postby penguindump » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:27 am

Well if the correct law were copied and pasted, it is clear as a bell. Especially because the part that I pointed out is there.

INA: ACT 215 - TRAVEL DOCUMENTATION OF ALIENS AND CITIZENS

Sec. 215. [8 U.S.C. 1185]

(b) Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport.


http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.j ... cb816838a4
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Re: Passport Success

Postby zagnut » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:34 pm

Actually that source law was referenced at the beginning of the quoted Code Of Federal Regulations, Title 22CFR53.1:
Under section 215(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8
U.S.C. 1185(b), it is unlawful except as otherwise provided for any
citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to
depart from or enter, the United States without a valid passport.

Rather than look it up, you immediately went into your "I'm just pointing out that they leave it a little grey with their wording" routine.

I'm pleasantly surprised you aren't now quibbling about the greyness of "Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States..."
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